Fin Rot and proper treatment

scottsweet

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I have a Gem tang that I am trying to nurse back....eats like a horse. At first I thought he was getting picked on...but now think it is fin rot...but... @Jay Hemdal

Tank is a 180 mixed reef. Lots of tangs but this is the only one with deteriorating fins.
I feed a lot with Reef Nutrition...pellets and Brine, Mysis, Pods daily. I feed lots of greens now with Nori and what is in Reef Nutrition TDO.

Started heavy frozen food feeding with Selcon soaking.

What is the best course of treatment? Quarantine and treat water, dip, meds with food or? Catching will be a challenge though LOL.

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef
Aquarium water volume : 180, total water 220
Filtration type: live rock
Lighting: GHL Mitra
How long has the aquarium been established? 1.5 years
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature: 80
pH: ~8.3
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate - ~20
Phosphorus - ~.06
Copper - 0
Other

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (see below) No
Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4)
Are the affected fish still feeding? Yes
What remedies have you tried so far? Selcon soaked frozen food
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well):
Thanks.

IMG_2011.jpeg
 
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Jay Hemdal

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How long has it had this fin erosion? Zebrasoma tangs show HLLE differently than other species - and this looks a LOT like that.

Jay
 
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scottsweet

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How long has it had this fin erosion? Zebrasoma tangs show HLLE differently than other species - and this looks a LOT like that.

Jay

Been a few weeks... It started slowly...I simply thought it was being attacked...then progressed.
 

Jay Hemdal

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The video helped a lot. No, that isn't HLLE, see the fin rays hanging off of the caudal fin? That is some sort of bacterial issue, possibly started with an injury, but now it is pretty aggressive fin rot. Do you have a treatment tank available that you could move the tang to and dose with antibiotics?

Jay
 
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scottsweet

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The video helped a lot. No, that isn't HLLE, see the fin rays hanging off of the caudal fin? That is some sort of bacterial issue, possibly started with an injury, but now it is pretty aggressive fin rot. Do you have a treatment tank available that you could move the tang to and dose with antibiotics?

Jay
Yes...I have a 5 gal qt
 

Jay Hemdal

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Yes...I have a 5 gal qt
Oh, he isn’t going to like being put in a 5 gallon! You might get away with it- you could try Neoplex or Furan-2. you’ll need to monitor ammonia closely while it’s in there, typical treatments are 5 to 7 days. Another option would be daily dips in the five gallon at a higher dose, but for only 3 hours at a time. The trouble is you’d have to catch the fish daily, and that would be stressful.
If the problem didn’t seem so aggressive I’d be inclined to leave it in the tank to just heal on its own....
Jay
 

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Looks like a Gram-negative bacterial infection. These type of strains can easily overwhelm the fish’s natural immune system. Some symptoms may include:
- Any “redness” or open sores/wounds on a fish should be viewed with suspicion
- A white film or “fungus” looking growth can denote a bacterial infection
- Frayed fins / fin & tail rot
- Cloudy eyes
- Bloating which will suggest an internal bacterial infection.

i would start the fish with a 90 minute bath using Ruby rally Pro then move fish to quarantine for antibiotic treatment. For antibiotic, a good choice would be Maracyn 2 or Furan which is a broad-spectrum antibiotic (minocycline) developed for use in aquariums. Due to its unique properties, it is absorbed by the fish through the skin.
 
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scottsweet

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Looks like a Gram-negative bacterial infection. These type of strains can easily overwhelm the fish’s natural immune system. Some symptoms may include:
- Any “redness” or open sores/wounds on a fish should be viewed with suspicion
- A white film or “fungus” looking growth can denote a bacterial infection
- Frayed fins / fin & tail rot
- Cloudy eyes
- Bloating which will suggest an internal bacterial infection.

i would start the fish with a 90 minute bath using Ruby rally Pro then move fish to quarantine for antibiotic treatment. For antibiotic, a good choice would be Maracyn 2 or Furan which is a broad-spectrum antibiotic (minocycline) developed for use in aquariums. Due to its unique properties, it is absorbed by the fish through the skin.
Thanks. What does it mean to do a 90 minute bath?
 
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scottsweet

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Oh, he isn’t going to like being put in a 5 gallon! You might get away with it- you could try Neoplex or Furan-2. you’ll need to monitor ammonia closely while it’s in there, typical treatments are 5 to 7 days. Another option would be daily dips in the five gallon at a higher dose, but for only 3 hours at a time. The trouble is you’d have to catch the fish daily, and that would be stressful.
If the problem didn’t seem so aggressive I’d be inclined to leave it in the tank to just heal on its own....
Jay

Thanks...he loves nori...I can probably put the Nori in the tank and catch him. I also have a 20 gal too. I can set that up using tank water.
 
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Thanks. What does it mean to do a 90 minute bath?
One of the simplest and fastest ways to reduce and eliminate the numbers of all types of ich organisms, as well as flukes and lice that are parasitic on saltwater fishes is to give them a quick freshwater dip or bath. This method of hyposalinity is very effective, takes little time to prepare, and is strongly recommended as the first step in treating ich diseased fish prior to placing them into quarantine for long-term treatment with the proper medication for what ails them.
Taking a saltwater fish out of saltwater and placing it in freshwater will put the fish under a certain amount of stress, so keep an eye on the treated fish for signs of extreme stress (laying on the bottom of the treatment container and gilling rapidly). Agitating the treatment water will help to keep the fish moving around and reduce stress.

What You Need:
  • plastic container large enough to comfortably hold the fish to be treated
  • Ammonia neutralizing product
  • Fresh water (filtered or dechlorinated)
a- Fill a plastic container with an appropriate source of fresh water, such as RO/DI filtered water. If you have no choice but to use tap water, be sure to dechlorinate it first.
b - To prevent unnecessary shock and stress, try to match the pH and temperature of the freshwater to that of the water from the fish's saltwater aquarium.
c - For the best results fish should remain in the freshwater for a duration of three to four minutes. If any fish is showing signs of undue stress after a minute or two, remove it.
 
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scottsweet

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One of the simplest and fastest ways to reduce and eliminate the numbers of all types of ich organisms, as well as flukes and lice that are parasitic on saltwater fishes is to give them a quick freshwater dip or bath. This method of hyposalinity is very effective, takes little time to prepare, and is strongly recommended as the first step in treating ich diseased fish prior to placing them into quarantine for long-term treatment with the proper medication for what ails them.
Taking a saltwater fish out of saltwater and placing it in freshwater will put the fish under a certain amount of stress, so keep an eye on the treated fish for signs of extreme stress (laying on the bottom of the treatment container and gilling rapidly). Agitating the treatment water will help to keep the fish moving around and reduce stress.

What You Need:
  • plastic container large enough to comfortably hold the fish to be treated
  • Ammonia neutralizing product
  • Fresh water (filtered or dechlorinated)
a- Fill a plastic container with an appropriate source of fresh water, such as RO/DI filtered water. If you have no choice but to use tap water, be sure to dechlorinate it first.
b - To prevent unnecessary shock and stress, try to match the pH and temperature of the freshwater to that of the water from the fish's saltwater aquarium.
c - For the best results fish should remain in the freshwater for a duration of three to four minutes. If any fish is showing signs of undue stress after a minute or two, remove it.
Thanks...but need some clarification.

1. You said a 90 minute bath in Ruby. The above says 3-4 minutes.
2. What is the makeup of the bath itself? RO/DI or saltwater or? Ruby Red based on the dosage instructions in salt or fresh water? Straight up Ruby ...which I think not...


Thanks in advance, Scott
 

vetteguy53081

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Thanks...but need some clarification.

1. You said a 90 minute bath in Ruby. The above says 3-4 minutes.
2. What is the makeup of the bath itself? RO/DI or saltwater or? Ruby Red based on the dosage instructions in salt or fresh water? Straight up Ruby ...which I think not...


Thanks in advance, Scott
3-4 minutes is for a freshwater dip which offers temporary relief. the ruby method is a pre-treatment method.
- You can use freshwater ro or tap water dechlorinated. . . . . or FW with a pinch of baking soda for PH
Ruby in saltwater. Great clarification questions
 
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scottsweet

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3-4 minutes is for a freshwater dip which offers temporary relief. the ruby method is a pre-treatment method.
- You can use freshwater ro or tap water dechlorinated. . . . . or FW with a pinch of baking soda for PH
Ruby in saltwater. Great clarification questions
Thanks again.

So if I understand correctly...

Use saltwater and make a bath with the Ruby Rally Pro based on the instructions on the bottle and put the fish in for 90 minutes. Then put fish in to my treatment tank using the Furan based on their instructions.

Questions:
1. How long should I have the fish in quarantine with Furan?
2. Should I use the standard dose for Furan or do anything different while in quarantine tank?

Thanks again.
 

vetteguy53081

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Thanks again.

So if I understand correctly...

Use saltwater and make a bath with the Ruby Rally Pro based on the instructions on the bottle and put the fish in for 90 minutes. Then put fish in to my treatment tank using the Furan based on their instructions.

Questions:
1. How long should I have the fish in quarantine with Furan?
2. Should I use the standard dose for Furan or do anything different while in quarantine tank?

Thanks again.
I do it for 7days
Jay may have a different recommendation
 
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You will need to be on top of daily water changes in the qt or the ammonia will build up very quickly.

adding rock won’t help since furan 2 kills gram positive and gram negative bacteria
 
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scottsweet

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Update...so I finally caught the fish (took the big TankMatez and 2 weeks) and got him in the quarantine. Treated the fish. I think he is healing...the tail fin looks like it is growing back now. @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal , what do you guys think? He is pretty beat up and don't know if the other fins will ever grow back...but he is eating.

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Jay Hemdal

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Oh, poor guy! He’s really been through the wringer. It looks pale and a bit thin. Just feed it up as best you can; high fat and protein foods as well as plant material.
Jay
 
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scottsweet

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Oh, poor guy! He’s really been through the wringer. It looks pale and a bit thin. Just feed it up as best you can; high fat and protein foods as well as plant material.
Jay
Does the disease fin rot look gone? He actually isn't that thin...it is the weird water color and lighting of the QT. His fins and color are awful though. If you look at his tail...it isn't black and is growing back...

I can release him back in to the main tank and that will likely help...I don't think I can catch him again.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I went back and forth on this fish - first I thought it was HLLE, then with the hanging/tattered fin rays, I thought aggression and secondary bacterial infection. Now, with this amount of time having passed and it hasn't either fully recovered or died, I'm not sure what is going on. If it looks improved to you, I would keep it where its at until the fins grow back some more.

Jay
 
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