First ICP Test Results

[Ken S]

Hello R2R. I got my first ICP test results back today. Not sure if it is overall good or bad.

First attachment is the ICP results pdf. Others are some pics of the tank. Tank is a 200g Innovative Marine Peninsula. Filled in May 2024. I cured all the rock in a barrel 6 months prior with powerheads, a light, 100% water changes every 3 weeks. This rock was saved from a tank I set up nearly 35 years ago and broke down around 14 years ago. I did have a small ugly stage that lsted about 4 weeks. I then addded 6 blue-green chromis and let that run another month, at which time I added a massive CUC (50 astrea/50 of the larger, elongeated ones that burrow in the sand, the name escapes me now/50 red leg hermits/2 tuxedo urchins - and I have since bolstered the CUC with additions of all since except urchins). Second in was a juveline yellow tail dwarf moray. I now have all of those plus 1 each yellow and purple tangs, equisite wrasse, bellus angel, Oyramid butterfly, diamond gobi, race-lined gobi (not sure thats the exact correct name), cleaner shrimp, and my pride and joy large ritteri and pair of Clark's clownfish.

Flow - Two Sicce sdc7.0 returns/2 MP60/1 Orbit 4 gyre.
Lighting is 3 XR15G6 and 2 Kessil A360Xe (for shimmer).
3 four inch sock compartment that I change at least twice a week, sometimes 3.
Skimmer - Ocot 250 INT Royal.
57 watt UV - running 18 hrs/day.
Fuge was mainly calupera with a bit of cheato mixed in under IM ChaetoMax light- I bought a Kessil A360x Refugium light off Ebay dirt cheap. When installed it a couple months ago, the calupera started to die off (i pulled out the dead stuff daily) and the chaeto now completely consumes the entire refugium space. I run the light 18 hrs/day. I am an adamant tester, nearly every day, sometimes twice a day. I have never had super-high phos levels according to my Hanna checker. The max I have seen is .08 and that was many months ago. It usually hovers around .04-.06. I will dial back the refugium light perion to 12 on, 12 off. If that doesn't help, I guess I need to dose some phosphates?

AWC - I have a 4-Bank Versa - two heads water in, 2 heads water out, changing out 2L/day each head, so around 4.25 gal/day is being exchanged. I use regular Instant Ocean.

Dosing - BRS Balling Method - Another 4-Bank Versa dosing CA + Trace K at 190ml/day. ALK + Trace A at 200ml/day (same for Part C - 200ml/day) and Mg at 100ml/day (which I have already dialed back to 90/ml and I'll drop more as needed. I started dosing Sep 2024. I use the smallest amount of Trace A and K (80mg in the respective gallon jugs).
I also dose a small amount of phyto and I am currently thinking of setting up my own culture station.

Take a look at the tank pics. I'd call this a medium-low stocked tank. Please let me know if you disagree. There are a total of around 50 small frags (sps/montis/lps/encrusters/zoas/palys). My first few small digitata frags grew like mad for months then started to STN from the base up, so I fragged them up, dipped them and put them back in. Everything was fine for another couple months than it started again, so I decided to try the ICP test. Back in the day when I had my previous tank, not sure if these ICP test were around.

These are tests from this morning
Hann alk 8.5
Hanna Phos .04
Hanna Nit 14.2
Salifert CA 440
Salifert MG 1440
PH is 8.27-8.44 (co2 scrubber recirc through skimmer lid)
Temp is 76.4
Accroding to the report, my RO/DI is working perfectly.

How do I have so much Sulfur in my tank? It's not coming from the RO, so is it something I am adding? Is there a media that I can use to reduce the sulfur content?
How are some of the elements provided by Trace K and Trace A high, while others are low?
My iodine is low and I do have some Lugols I will be adding per the directions.
For phospahtes, plan is to reduce photperiod, if that doesnt help in a few weeks, start dosing, or should I just get some (I'll be at LFS tomorrow) and start dosing a little right away.

But I dont want to do anything until I hear from some of the experts at R2R. I am an avid reader, seldom post and hoping for some advice on the best way to tackle this problem. I am hoping my AWC will work for the water changes, if some are needed asap. I can crank that Versa up to change out 50/g in 3 days if need be, 6 hrs to refill my barrel, 6 hrs of mixing, and I can get another 50g changed so I can change out 100g/week through that Versa if needed. I have CIDP and it is getting harder and harder to stand up more than 5-10 minutes at a time. My balance is shot and I have taken some nasty spills over the last couple years, but hey life goes on!

Thank you in advance for any advice and help!
Ken

P.S. I do have two more ATI kits, thinking of sending off another right away just so I have a comparison spread out over the last month and to see if they possibly made any mistakes. No one is beyong making mistakes!

 

[Ken S]

I'm sorry, I do tend to ramble in some of my posts! Maybe that is why no one has responded? Or maybe I posted to the wrong forum? I'm looking for some insight as to how Sulfur is critically high in my tank. I provided pretty much the entire back story from day 1 maybe it's just TMI.

Also very curious as to how some of the trace elements in Tropic Marin A & K added to my two part are low, while others are high? I use regular IO salt mix.

I am going to pick up some phosphate today & try dose that to get that number up. Good idea, or no?

Thank you in advance for any insight & advice!

 

[Pod_01]

I'm looking for some insight as to how Sulfur is critically high in my tank.

Just a guess, but based on the BRS Mg additive it contains S:

I suspect the BRS 2 part with Mg does not provide ionic balance and hence some of your elements are out of place.

I suggest you consider Randy 2 part with TM part C to maintain ionic balance.

Thread 'DIY Balling Method Recipe'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-balling-method-recipe.1098905/


I had similar issue with another unbalanced 2 part system and I ended chasing my tail, always fixing some element including S.
I have moved to TM Original Balling another balanced system.

Using TM A and K at the minimum daily dose with balanced 2/3 part system did not mess up my trace elements.

Also PO4 in sub 0.04ppm levels never worked for me. Some can make it work but if you have unhappy corals you can try 0.1-0.2ppm levels.

Good luck,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First thing to keep in mind is that the "sky is falling" aspect of ICP company statements is often quite unjustified.

yes, sulfate is high relative to chloride, but whether that is any concern is an entirely different question. It's not a critical problem, IMO. Can you post how exactly you made the magneisum part? i have a couple of different recipes for different scenarios, and you may just be using the wrong one.

One concern is the undetectable P, and the relatively low value you measured. I'd feed more or dose phosphate.

You might benefit from more of the A and K.

 

[Shirak]

Have you done any par readings? 200gal tank with 3 xr15 and a couple kessil sounds insufficient to me. Especially for sps

 

[Ken S]

Just a guess, but based on the BRS Mg additive it contains S:

I suspect the BRS 2 part with Mg does not provide ionic balance and hence some of your elements are out of place.

I suggest you consider Randy 2 part with TM part C to maintain ionic balance.

Thread 'DIY Balling Method Recipe'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-balling-method-recipe.1098905/


I had similar issue with another unbalanced 2 part system and I ended chasing my tail, always fixing some element including S.
I have moved to TM Original Balling another balanced system.

Using TM A and K at the minimum daily dose with balanced 2/3 part system did not mess up my trace elements.

Also PO4 in sub 0.04ppm levels never worked for me. Some can make it work but if you have unhappy corals you can try 0.1-0.2ppm levels.

Good luck,

Thank you so much for pointing this out! I didn't think to look at the MG. And thank you very much for the link, I will read it tonight. I did get hold of some phosphate yesterday and dosed half of what the bottle recommended - Brightwell neophos. I am not the greatest fan of Brightwell because every single thing you buy from them, they recommend that you use it in conjunction with another of their products, sometimes two or three. Seems shady and saleman-ish. But, it is all they had. My Hanna checker last night said .04 and it usually is right around that number (.04-.06). Dosing half the recommended amount, the Hanna checker now says .09. So no dosing tonight and I'll check it again in the morning. I also decreased the photperiod of my Fuge light,

Anyway, thank you so much for the help! Greatly appreciated!
Ken

 

[Ken S]

First thing to keep in mind is that the "sky is falling" aspect of ICP company statements is often quite unjustified.

yes, sulfate is high relative to chloride, but whether that is any concern is an entirely different question. It's not a critical problem, IMO. Can you post how exactly you made the magneisum part? i have a couple of different recipes for different scenarios, and you may just be using the wrong one.

One concern is the undetectable P, and the relatively low value you measured. I'd feed more or dose phosphate.

You might benefit from more of the A and K.

Randy, Understood about the not panicking part, which I do admit to do. I just really want this tank to go well. I want to give my fish and corals the absolute best enviromnent at all times. That si what I strive for anyways, but apparently not working out right now. The MG I use is from BRS, pics attached. I mix exactly as shown on the label. I can see what needs refilling visually and in Mobius so I mix that up in the jug just as the label instructions say and I let it sit 2-3 days before it goes in the vessel, and I give it a shake or two a couple times each day it is sitting. Probably excessive, I know! :) I would love to hear back your advice and recipe for MG!

I got hold of some Brightwell Neophos from LFS yesterday. Before dosing, the Hanna checker said .04, so I dosed HALF of the recommended amount to raise it .02 (per the EZ Calculations on the side of the bottle) and now the Hanna checker says .09. So I am doing no dosing tonight and will check it again in the morning. I think I am losing confidence in the Hanna phosphate checker's accuracy though.

Thank you for the help Randy! Much appreciated!

 

[Ken S]

Have you done any par readings? 200gal tank with 3 xr15 and a couple kessil sounds insufficient to me. Especially for sps

Shirak, I have done Par readings. I borrowed a meter from LFS. The tank is shallow. It is 30" wide and only 21-3/4 tall. It is Euro-braced. The measurment from the waterline to the top of the sand is only 17". I mapped out the tank on paper, wrote all the readings down for each area top/middle/bottom and planned to type it all into a worksheet but my wife threw my chicken scratch paper away! The nerve of that woman! :) She thought it was just one of my scribble papers. I am a work from home project estimator and I am always scribbling down numbers.

I don't recall everything, but I do recall around all 4 sides of the Ritteri it was reading around 340-380 Par at the surface, and I recall around 80-100 par on each end of the tank at the bottom. I am not using any reflectors and the lights are all jammed pretty tightly together on an RMS light rail. I had a diatom bloom a couple months ago so I dialed intensity back a bit and went a little more blue. Whatever I am doing, the Ritteri loves it. I have had it right around 6 months and it has literally doubled in size. I feed it a LOT. The LFS that got it for me had to bring in 4 just to get this one that lived through the shipping. And he quarrantined and ran cipro on it for me, and it made it through. I had one of these for 12 years in my previous tank but sold it and got out. I'm trying to replicate my old tank, but that had 400 watt MH and VHO actinics :) and a $125/month electric bill hike!

I did research lighting pretty well. I posted here or Reef Central when I was doing so, as I was originally going to go ith XR30's and A500x's but I was told that was way, way, way too much light for this shallow tank and the LFS said the same as well. But who knows?I am only doing easy stuff, digi's, monti caps, encrusters. I am not going for the super exotic acros or anything....at least not yet. I attached a photo of the light rail and tank so you can see.

Thank you!
Ken

 

[Shirak]

Looks great ken! I am glad you looked into the light situation when getting things set up. It sounds like you have a good handle on what you can and can't do with the fixtures and tank dimensions. Ritteri looks amazing! Used to see them so much way back when. Yes I remember the MH VHO actinic 03, Tritons etc

I agree the PO4 is the biggest stand out. The Brightwell is easy to use but not cheap. Can get some tri sodium phosphate and make up your own DIY solution.

 

[rishma]

When I grow up I’ll have a big peninsula like that!!

 

[Pod_01]

dosed half of what the bottle recommended - Brightwell neophos.

There are few ways to provide PO4, Randy provided DIY recipes.

I use Tropic Marin Phos Feed with few other of TM secret formulas (TM Reef Actif) and that seems to work well.

Nice looking tank…

Good luck,

 

[Ken S]

Update.

I am losing more confidence in my Hanna checker. As mentioned, I picked up a Brightwell product called NeoPhos. I tested before dosing and it was .04. I dosed half the amount on bottle to raise it by .02, so it should have raised it .01 or up to .05, according to the info and calculations on the bottle.

The next evening I tested again and it was reading .09. So I did nothing. No dose.

Last night, the checker said .02. So I dosed half the amount to raise the the phos by .04. According to the EZ calculations on the bottle, for my size tank it was telling me it was like 28 mil! Seemed like a lot and still wanting to go slow, I added 14 mil, which still seems like a lot. I triple checked the EZ calculations and it was correct.

This morning, the checker said .01 phos. I thought I did something wrong so I repeated the test and the result .02. I did not dose again and I will take another reading tonight.

Now I am thoroughly confused. I guess something is consuming the phosphate that fast? My cheato is growing like mad even before I bought the NeoPhos. I recently reduced the photo period from 18 on/6 off down to 12 on/12 off.

If anyone has any input or advice, I am all ears. If I get another low reading do I dump in more NeoPhos? Maybe I'll take a water sample to LFS to see if they get the same reading as my checker.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Added phosphate often binds to rock and sand, reducing the detectable phosphate. It may take a ton more dosing than calculations suggest.

 

[Ken S]

Hi Randy, So I literally just stocked up on BRS soda ash & calcium chloride. I have like 15 of the small one gallon jug mixes each.

Can I use these with your Balling DIY magnesium recipe without causing another imbalance? I read the DIY thread & I'd like to add magnesium chloride hexahydrate, Epsom salt to the 7 scoops Balling C. That would free up a doser for phyto.

The MCH I have my eye on is in the Amazon link https://a.co/d/dYx3YfG

The Epsom here https://a.co/d/2Qzxyiu

The Epsom is magnesium sulfate, which is also on the BRS magnesium label & suspected of causing the sulfate build-up in my tank (per the icp test).