First Time Reefer: Please Critique My Potential Build List!

[OldRed1]

mp10 is pretty extravagant. Ice cap gyre would be fine and the only in tank flow you need.

get two jager 50w hearers and an inkbird from Amazon

I would recommend beefing up on lighting. One prime is a bit small.

definitely skip the Hana salinity.

good ato choice


I’m not familiar with that tank but you’ll want a skimmer or an intank fuge basket with like an innovative marine small fuge light.

Thank you for the feedback! I will make a note of these heaters and will look them up.

Regarding the lighting, it does not appear that there is room on this tank to mount two separate lights. According to the website, the tank I have is 23.6"×15.7"×15.7" (or 600 x 400 x 400mm). From what I have read online, the AI Prime 16HD is sufficient to cover a 24" x 24" x 24" area.

Will skip the salinity checker. I am not anticipating going heavy on fish at first (may do so later on), hence why I thought to skip a skimmer for now.

 

[OldRed1]

mp10 is pretty extravagant. Ice cap gyre would be fine and the only in tank flow you need.

get two jager 50w hearers and an inkbird from Amazon

I would recommend beefing up on lighting. One prime is a bit small.

definitely skip the Hana salinity.

good ato choice


I’m not familiar with that tank but you’ll want a skimmer or an intank fuge basket with like an innovative marine small fuge light.

Really appreciate the advice! Skipped the MP10's and will be glad to have the extra cash to put elsewhere in the tank.

 

[OldRed1]

Also try not to stress it’s hard to make too bad of a choice!

also concur try to find your local reef club and get used gear. My local one has a pay it forward section for giveaways even

Appreciate the reply to the thread, thank you! I have reached out to the local group (the 518's) and am hoping to join up in a frag swap/meet up later this fall.

 

[OldRed1]

Things needed for a tank
1. Flow
2. Heat
3. Light

I think the list you have is overwhelming to say the least.

1. Flow
Personally I would skip the powerheads/wavemakers, and add one or two VCA nozzles to the outlet for the return pump. A VCA nozzle is going to run you $20ea, so we're talking $40(if you go with 2) vs $377 you have listed with the add on guard
2. ATO - I've only used xp aqua ATO, it's $127, so not saving much money
3. Heater - Eheim, cobalt, even the aqueon pro heater is a good choice. A good 100w heater shouldn't run you more than $75. I think the main thing is going to be finding one that fits in the back chamber
4. Testers, to start I would get a refractometer, or the glass hydrometer from Tropic Marin. I personally have the glass hydrometer. It's super easy to use, and theres no calibration. Save some money off the bat and don't buy alkalinity or phosphate tests yet. The nitrate tester may be useful, but a $10 API test kit will get you in the ballpark. Hydrometer $35 and nitrate test $55
so $85 vs $230 you have listed
5. Lighting - AI is a fine light, not sure how many other good nano lights are out there that aren't chinese lights.

Thank you for simplifying the key components of the tank. There is so much to keep track of and so many products being sold, but your list of three things to focus on simplifies things so effectively. Really appreciate your feedback!

 

[OldRed1]

+1 on a skimmer. Something small like a tunze should fit in your aio chamber.

Flow - I like the nero series, small profile compared to the mq, looks better in a smaller tank. If you want to save money, something like a small hydor should also be enough unless you plan on getting corals like sps that need a TON of flow. (If you want SPS then 1 prime is not enough. Fyi)

ATO - not absolutely necessary if you want to save money. I never had one when I had my nano bc evaporation will be small. its so easy to just manually add a gallon of RODI. Even during winter when its driest in my apartment, I only need to top off every 2-3 days. In summer I tipoff every 4-5 days.

Do you think I need a skimmer in a nano tank with a low bio load? I am sort of hoping that the corals (softies and hardy LPS) will soak up the fish waste, but that's just based on what I've read other folks do.

 

[OldRed1]

Before I recommend anything aside from a heater.... What is your goal for this tank?

My goal for this tank is really quite simple: Set up a tank with a few fish, a few softies, and a few hardy LPS and keep the water parameters stable, the algae under control, and the critters healthy. This is my very first reef build, so I'd like to focus on getting really good at the bare basics first, if that makes sense.

 

[OldRed1]

If you stick with the MP10 check out the 3d printed forum for a guard that replaces the cage. Much smaller footprint and cheaper than the ones you can buy readily available online.

Also check out the Innovative Marine ATO Reservoir. If you have the space for it, it is super handy.

Lastly, for a few extra bucks I'd personally go with this salinity checker. I've bought refractometers and the Hanna Marine Salinity Tester only to stop using them for the Milwaukee alternative.

Thanks for the feedback! I ended up passing on the MP10 for now and went with a less expensive option. Regarding the reservoir, I'll keep that in mind long-term. Short term, I plan to invest in a really great bucket.

 

[OldRed1]

I would def. still add a wavemaker/power head. You cannot have too much flow. So many issues come of dead spots. With powerheads, you can put them lower in tank etc. More flexibility. I've used the jebao on amazon. I have a 40 g AIO and have 2 cheap powerheads and the return and still lack flow. I need to actually buy 2 better quality but not expensive as all my jebao have died after many years. Again, flow is everything! Even spending more. New tank I did not go cheap and what a difference.

If you have room, 2 heaters equalling what you need is always better than 1 big heater. Set one lower than the other to come on if needed

Yes on refractometer. Not that expensive.

No on api nitrate. I was using this on all my tanks for years. Used on the new build as well. Started to have algae issues yet no3 was low. Got the hanna HR and it was twice what api was and I didn't know. Spend the money on your testers. Worth it. And I would get the phosphate tester as you will need almost right away . Keeping no3 and po4 in line will save issues later. You can use api for the first month or so if you want to test often, but then switch. Even now I am testing every couple days as I started a new dosing regime of nyos zero so need to be sure it doesn't bottom out.

Good luck. start a build thread. Just copy and paste your first post here to start it off

Thanks for the feedback about powerheads. Decided to go with a Nero 3, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that it functions as intended. I ended up buying 2 100w heaters. Where I'm moving will have very cold temperatures over the winter, and I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks for the feedback about the testers, too. I ended up getting the Salifert nitrate kit and a classic refractometer. Looking forward to starting my actual build thread once our move is wrapped up!

 

[OldRed1]

I would skip nitrite Hana checker and salinity. get a Nitrate, nitrite, Ammonia test kit red sea or salifert. Save money on mP10 to small of tank cheaper options. Instead to get an RODI system and box of salt you will thank me later when you are not rushing to fish store before closing with a bucket or 2. Can get a cheaper heater as well but don't go to cheap get a mid range one. If you want an accurate temperature checker look up inkbird. Maybe a fish net and food would be good to add.

Went with the Salifert nitrate kit. Thanks for the recommendation! I'm not sure we'll be able to install a RODI system in the place where we are moving, but I will definitely keep that in mind. Thankfully, there is a LFS within 10 minutes of where we are moving, so picking up pre-mixed saltwater won't be too bad.

 

[OldRed1]

swap the hanna salinity checker for a tropic marin hydrometer and a 500ml cylinder (to put the salt water and hydrometer in). replace the mp10 for a nero3, or better yet, jebao pumps. could try adding a reefbrite light kit to the prime, or upgrade the prime for a hydra32hd.

everything else is good!

Ended up going with the Nero 3! Thanks for the feedback!

 

[OldRed1]

The mp10 is definitely nice, but also top of the line pricing as others have mentioned. Also, I’ve got one in my 70, and it puts out plenty of flow and is only turned halfway up. I had it in a 29g biocube and it was way too much flow. Everything was blown around. In that small of a tank, you’d have it turned all the way down, at which point you’re not utilizing it for what it’s supposed to do (different flow patterns and strengths). It would basically just be a regular power head at that point that just shoots a constant flow. Nothing wrong with that, but it just defeats the purpose of the wave maker.

i also wouldn’t bother with a nitrite test kit… I saw it mentioned above but IMO not really useful. You’d maybe use it during cycle and that’s it. But even then, once you see your ammonia spike, and then go back down, you know you obviously have nitrites. Once your nitrates start climbing you know the bacteria is breaking nitrites down, so once you’ve got nitrates being produced you know you’re gonna have zero on the nitrites. No point testing for a number you know will be zero

Thanks for the feedback about the powerheads. I didn't fully appreciate just how much water the MP10s could move around. Skipped on the nitrite test, too. Will put that money towards better things!

 

[OldRed1]

I would suggest an RODI system. For a smaller system, you could do a 4 stage RODI, I have a bigger system and a 6 stage RODI. It is good to have an RODI with inline TDS testing. That way, you know when your RO membrane is going and you can monitor your DI resin conveniently. And the extra outlay is not that much. You can store your RODI water in a Brute Trash can and mix it in another. It sure beats buying the water and hauling it home. I figure that my RODI system paid for itself in about a year in $ (assuming my time and car mileage was 0).

For your tank, I think most of your choices are good. For a small system, you can solve most nutrient export problems and trace element depletion and so on with BRUTE FORCE WATER CHANGES. On a 25 gallon system, doing a nearly 100% water change is pretty feasible. If you have a 250 gallon system, it can be done but having skimmers, dosers, and trace element addition schemes become more appealing.

I'm not sure we'll be able to install a RODI system where we are moving, but I will keep that in mind as a long-term goal. I've watched a few videos on how to set them up, and it seems easy enough to do. For now, the plan is to do water changes with pre-mixed saltwater from the LFS.

 

[OldRed1]

If it were me I'd swap a few things out, not all necessarily to save money though

Jager heater with Inkbird, just my personal preference/experience, I haven't used BRS's combo. If you have the space, 2x half sized heaters is preferable to 1x full size. I think you'd save money here.

Jebao powerhead. Saves $100's

Tunze 3155 ATO. Costs $80 more but over years of service is well worth the freedom from worries.

I'd swap out the Prime as well, but cannot recommend a great replacement off the top of my head right now.

You can save money with a refractometer instead of the Hanna, but everyone seems to love their Hanna Salinity checker. I have to dust mine off, when I first tried it out, it seemed to be reading a bit high for me.

Thanks for the feedback! I did go with a used Prime, but will plan for future upgrades if I stick with the hobby.

 

[OldRed1]

I completely forgot RODI, that's a given. I have an RO Buddie which works just fine, especially for a tank as small as his. Mine is a 40 gallon with sump, so probably around 52-53 gallons total water volume. I usually do 5 gallons every week, or 10 every other. I filter RODI overnight into a 20 gallon brute, when needed.

For test kits, I do like Hannah for Nitrate HR, but under zero circumstances should anyone outside of a professional have an expensive Nitrite kit. You will use it a few times over a 3-5 day period, and then it's a dust collector.

Someone said an RO reservoir for the ATO, and I'd invest elsewhere. I use a 5 gallon jug from Home Depot and I "splurged" on the opaque one so I can see how full it is. By splurge I mean I spent $6.50 instead of $2.99. Those $100+ acrylic boxes are for show pieces or internet bragging points. A $10 10 gallon tank would work just fine.

I agree on the heaters, redundant is best. I have my tank in the basement, which isn't heated, so I need a 300w, when I should normally need a 150. I have the 300 watt and a 200 as my redundant, both hooked up to a Inkbird.

I also agree on the Jebao, but would recommend Reef Breeders, which seems to be the same factory, although with a much better warranty. I hooked mine up and it was clearly not fit well (it squeaked loudly), they 2-day'd the new part. I'm about to order a second to kill some dead spots.

And, while I have the microphone, I will say I just completely forgot how to mix salt and made a hot batch. Something like 1.035-1.040. I took a breath, got out the calibration fluid, got it to temp and adjusted my refractometer (it was off by .001. I then mixed in RODI to get the batch correct and did a water change.

On another note, I saw in the 518 Reefer Group that OP is moving to Saratoga, that's 30 minutes from me and I have an unused Hydra 26 HD with stand in my basement. Not looking to make this a sale thread, but if you're interested @OldRed1, I wont list it here or on Craigslist.

I love your suggestion to splurge on a Home Depot bucket. I plan to do just that! I passed on the nitrite kit, and for now will do the Salifert nitrate kit. Where we are moving can get cold in the winters, so I went with 2 100w heaters and an Inkbird temperature controller.

As an aside, regarding your proximity to Saratoga Springs, I'd be happy to connect about any other used equipment that you might have laying around. Do you frag corals too?

 

[OldRed1]

I am pretty "cheap" when it comes to reefing and i realize many disagree but personally dont think it is often a "get what you pay for" scenario.

MP10 is probably the best example. Unless the value for you is not having wire in the tank then get a nero....and thats only if want really need that small of a footprint and an app controlled device. Jebao and other offbrands work quite well and at least in my experience been extremely reliable(much more so than replacing wetsides on an ecotech).

I have paid for top of the line heaters in the past and always regret it as not noticed any significant difference in lifespan. Now i use an inkbird and the cheapest wattage appropriate 2 heater setup i can get.

I think there is a better case for spending on some higher end lights but even there i go cheap(i still got black boxes running that are well over 10 years old on a tank). In any case i would recommend something with a bit more uumph than the prime 16, but that at least partially depends on what your goals are(keeping in mind how they may change and it always being better to have too much light you can dial down rather than too little you have to replace).

Really appreciate your feedback about scaling back the cost on some of these 'high end' products. I've all ready saved a ton of money buy buying used and less expensive items. Since I'll be stocking this tank with some very basic softies/LPS, the Prime should be enough for now. If I end up loving the hobby then I'll worry about serious upgrades to the lights.

 

[Dkmoo]

Do you think I need a skimmer in a nano tank with a low bio load? I am sort of hoping that the corals (softies and hardy LPS) will soak up the fish waste, but that's just based on what I've read other folks do.

I always like it for the aeration as well.

If low bioload they it may not be critical to have it but I would not put too much weight in depending on corals to be a primary source of nutrient absorption until you get to a large amount of corals.

Even then, I would personally still prefer to have a skimmer for a "high nutrient thru put" system because "high in hi out" generally results in healthier systems than the alternative.

If you find yourself struggling to keep nutrients up via feeding the few fish alone, You can always feed more, and target feed corals specifically

 

[OldRed1]

That's a great point about aeration. I had not fully considered that aspect of it.

 

[catiebartholomew]

Hey, all. This is my first reef tank, and I am overwhelmed with all the equipment needs. I purchased a Waterbox 25g AIO peninsula tank and have an appropriate custom stand, but that is the only 'hardware' that I own at this time. Included below is a potential build list. If possible, I would love to get the costs down either by purchasing used products or less expensive alternatives. That said, I don't know where it is "safe" to cut costs, for example, I've read that you should never skimp out on a quality heater system. Thank you in advance for your comments, critiques, advice, etc. as I narrow things down.

Component	Name	Est. Price
Tank	Waterbox Peninsula Mini 25 (owned)	$318.75
Stand	Homemade (owned)	$150.00
Heater System	100W Titanium Aquarium Heater System - WiFi - Bulk Reef Supply	$118.99
Heater	Titanium Heater Element - Bulk Reef Supply	$58.49
Powerhead	VorTech MP10QD	$349.99
Powerhead add-on	VorTech Urchin Standard Flow Pump Guard	$26.99
ATO System	Smart ATO Nano - AutoAqua	$129.99
Lighting System	Prime 16 HD LED Reef Light - Black Body - Aqua Illumination	$249.99
Lighting System	Prime Flex Arm - 12 Inch - Aqua Illumination	$30.99
Testing Equipment	Hanna Checker - Alkalinity	$54.95
Testing Equipment	Hanna Checker - Phosphate	$54.95
Testing Equipment	Hanna Checker - Nitrate	$54.95
Testing Equipment	Hanna Checker - Marine Salinity	$75.00
Cost total (no tax)		$1,674.03

Not Included Above (but need to purchase):
- Live rock
- Live sand

Example alternatives:
Instead of the MP10, opt for NERO-3 ($350 vs $180)

look for everything second hand! fb marketplace has been good to me for this hobby

 

[OldRed1]

look for everything second hand! fb marketplace has been good to me for this hobby

Thanks for the suggestion! I've connected with an awesome member of R2R who has hooked me up with some great deals on second hand equipment. Don't have an FB account but will keep looking on these forums for great deals.

 

[October Sky]

I love your suggestion to splurge on a Home Depot bucket. I plan to do just that! I passed on the nitrite kit, and for now will do the Salifert nitrate kit. Where we are moving can get cold in the winters, so I went with 2 100w heaters and an Inkbird temperature controller.

As an aside, regarding your proximity to Saratoga Springs, I'd be happy to connect about any other used equipment that you might have laying around. Do you frag corals too?

I said opaque, I meant translucent, twas a brain fart.

To be clear on the test kits, I don't recommend a high end nitrite kit, but do use a Hanna nitrate kit. I like it, it's easy to use, but maybe go down that road later and just grab something cheaper to start. I do use a Red Sea Reef Foundation kit (Alk, Ca, Mg), and a Red Sea Phosphate tester. I would normally recommend the Red Sea Reef Marine Care kit (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH and Kh) but I also realize I haven't used anything but Nitrate and PH since I got stable, as I use the Alk tests from the Reef Foundation kit).

Your heater choice is solid, I have to use a 300w for a 40b/20l set up (probably 50/54 gallons total) because my tank is in the basement which can get quite cold in the winter as its not heated. During the summer, I could probably get away with a single 125w as its not air conditioned. But I do have a redundant 200w during the winter, and its all hooked up to an InkBird.

I saw a comment about an RODI and when cost allowed, go that route. I have a cheap RO Buddie hooked up to a slop sink in my basement. It does 50 gallons a day, and I completely uninstall it when not in use (it screws on to the faucet).

I have a few things laying about, so hit me up if you need random stuff. Final note, everyone just calls it Saratoga, I think only the pinkies up crowd includes the "Springs" part. Welcome to Upstate.