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- Oct 29, 2018
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Because noobs need a step by step guide to follow./
As a noob.....Seldom has anything truer been said.
I actually like to QT. I dont know why.
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Because noobs need a step by step guide to follow./
Your experience is the exception to the rule, I’m not saying it can’t be done. I also love to see photos of everyone’s tanks— it brings it all together for us.@Humblefish - I would never say a diatom filter is a silver bullet, but rather a very effective tool to achieve a long recognized but often overlooked reef-keeping principle - Dilution.
I think Paul also is trying to emphasized another long recognized but often underappreciated principle - nutrition. The oxydator, an H2O2 delivery system, as I understand it, is also a tool and not a method. I don't think anyone - anywhere has refereed to these as silver bullets. Tools and principles have to applied appropriately to be effective. I'm sure you would agree quarantine is not a silver bullet if not applied appropriately.
@4FordFamily - I, like Paul have found through years and many, many tanks that I too can skip traditional quarantine without loss and for the long-haul. I do keep many (mostly) Tangs including the dreaded Achilles and Powders. I got into tangs while running a coral propagation system - tangs were workhorses in my systems keeping nuisance algae in check. Keeping corals and tangs together, I had to find a way to beat ich and velvet without the luxury of medication available to keepers of fish only systems. Dilution was the principle I found which made this possible. Not just in one system, but in every system I have set up. I can't claim this discovery - the use of DE filtration is used extensively in aquaculture and public aquariums. How it works is simple and well understood. Ciliates and dinoflagellates - and that include many diseases other than ich and velvet - and not just for fish, but for every other bit of livestock we keep in our systems, are big and can easily be caught in the most basic of filtration. Its a tool - and like every tool - must be used correctly.
Copper works - CP works - but these hurt the fish and are arguably cruel- why are you still using them? If you want to cry - visit the fish forum on this board - the method of quarantine and fallow fail all the time following the methods you prescribe - you would agree I think that a bit of expertise and practice is required to master the those tools.
Maybe you've tried filtration (dilution) - or read of someone who has tried and failed.
Just means you or they didn't know how to use the tool.
As I said - I do keep tangs - and do not find quarantine necessary - (not for ciliates and dinoflagellates or for many other parasites with a free swimming stage) - and I do and have put infected, but otherwise healthy fish directly into my DT. Now ask yourself - what would in you do is you woke up tomorrow and found Ich in your tank? It will happen to many. Tear down, medicate, hospital tanks, quarantine tanks and let your DT sit for 76 days. What if its not ich or velvet but brook or uronema - same but with bleach?
I don't think you could go 40+ years - do you?
@paul - I can't practice your methods but you've got me thinking and I can apply some of them to my system. Thanks for getting me hunting for new stuff in the right direction.
Your experience is the exception to the rule, I’m not saying it can’t be done. I also love to see photos of everyone’s tanks— it brings it all together for us.
Did you check the information tab in my profile -
I have some videos on youtube you may like...
Your experience is the exception to the rule, I’m not saying it can’t be done. I also love to see photos of everyone’s tanks— it brings it all together for us.
@Humblefish - I would never say a diatom filter is a silver bullet, but rather a very effective tool to achieve a long recognized but often overlooked reef-keeping principle - Dilution.
I think Paul also is trying to emphasized another long recognized but often underappreciated principle - nutrition. The oxydator, an H2O2 delivery system, as I understand it, is also a tool and not a method. I don't think anyone - anywhere has refereed to these as silver bullets. Tools and principles have to applied appropriately to be effective. I'm sure you would agree quarantine is not a silver bullet if not applied appropriately.
@robert, per your last post. While I agree wholeheartedly the disease forum is a sad place to be, people are just trying to help. Like @Humblefish recommended (which is a great idea) earlier in this thread. I think it would be beneficial if all of you who are anti-QT would start threads with all the details regarding your systems so someone wanting to try it has a fair shot. We can somehow group them all together.only in the hobby - not in the public aquarium or in aquaculture. In the hobby we never, and still don't have access to equipment suitable for the task and hence never developed the techniques to utilized filtration effectively - we've kind of demonized it - nitrate factories and all. But my results are reproducible - I can do it over and over. Not 1 tank for 40+ years - but multiple tanks over a decade.
Silver bullet, tool, principle... we're mincing words. The point I'm trying to drive home is newbies have no idea what you're talking about when you say just use a diatom filter. Which make/model? How do you plumb it into your system? What modifications are needed? What about maintenance? You get my point.
I've written step by step guides/tutorials on how to quarantine, proper usage of medications, etc. If you want people to stop using these "cruel" treatments then provide a better way (in detail.)
You said you were going to test it - several years ago I believe -
Did you?
What good is offering him a forum if your going to backhand his experience or those of others who have something to share. I expected probative questions, especially from the experts. Not condescension.
@Paul B Have I ever backhanded your experience??
See @robert, this is why I have a hard time taking you seriously. If you knew anything about my interactions with Paul, you would know that I have great respect for him and his methods. Sure, we disagree on a lot but we do so in a respectful manner. With you, on the other hand, it's always hostility, hurling insults, etc. Even when I extend an olive branch.
I tend to get a little hostile to an approach to disease in our tanks that sacrifices the creatures we care for when I *know* there are better options.
You feel that hostility is directed at you because you know that by referring to alternatives as purported "silver bullets" your giving short shrift to these methods and tools without having done due diligence.
We disagree on approach. To the extent we both feel vested in our own ideas and experiences, there will always be a perception of hostility even if its not intended personally.
We can discuss ideas - I welcome that but please - words do matter - how you portray another's ideas needs to be respectful. Especially if you've never actually taken their approach.