Fish Dying One by One

[Zakary2003]

My fish are dying and I can't find the cause. It started with my male clownfish who died on September 18th. I had him since May and he was always a bit skinny and lethargic, so I just assumed he had bad genetics or was being outcompeted by the female clownfish. I started a three week metroplex/focus treatment at the recommendation of my LFS just in case and everything seemed fine. Well my neon goby disappeared this week despite looking totally healthy, and my yasha goby hasn't come out of her burrow in over a week as well. The candy pistol shrimp has been out, but the yasha goby has not, which is very unusual. I thoroughly searched the floor and the back filter chambers for jumpers and found nothing. The yasha could totally turn up since she went missing for 4 months one time, but I've never had the neon goby disappear before.

My female clownfish is also looking a bit skinny even though she is eating quite well.

My other three fish seem totally healthy. I have a fat, active tailspot blenny and a pair of borderline obese biota blue mandarins that are super active and eating fine.

What should I be doing to ensure the remaining fish survive? What would you guys suspect is the cause? Is it possible that everything is unrelated?

I don't do quaruntine. I really wish I could, but I live in a college dorm. I can barely get away with having the one tank, and I definitely do not have the space for a quaruntine setup even if I thought I could get away with it.

My paremeters remain stable. I cannot imagine they are the issue but they're always the first thing people ask so here they are.
Calc/alk/mag: measured with Trident ACM
Averages: 403/8.87/1189. Highs: 413/9.13/1203. Lows: 385/8.41/1175. That data is for the past week, but it is about the same for the past three months.
Salinity: 35ppt. Refractometer
Ph: average 7.99, high 8.35, low 7.7. Measured with apex.
No3 5.8 measured with hanna HR.
Phosphate 0.19 measured with hanna ULR

 

[vetteguy53081]

My fish are dying and I can't find the cause. It started with my male clownfish who died on September 18th. I had him since May and he was always a bit skinny and lethargic, so I just assumed he had bad genetics or was being outcompeted by the female clownfish. I started a three week metroplex/focus treatment at the recommendation of my LFS just in case and everything seemed fine. Well my neon goby disappeared this week despite looking totally healthy, and my yasha goby hasn't come out of her burrow in over a week as well. The candy pistol shrimp has been out, but the yasha goby has not, which is very unusual. I thoroughly searched the floor and the back filter chambers for jumpers and found nothing. The yasha could totally turn up since she went missing for 4 months one time, but I've never had the neon goby disappear before.

My female clownfish is also looking a bit skinny even though she is eating quite well.

My other three fish seem totally healthy. I have a fat, active tailspot blenny and a pair of borderline obese biota blue mandarins that are super active and eating fine.

What should I be doing to ensure the remaining fish survive? What would you guys suspect is the cause? Is it possible that everything is unrelated?

I don't do quaruntine. I really wish I could, but I live in a college dorm. I can barely get away with having the one tank, and I definitely do not have the space for a quaruntine setup even if I thought I could get away with it.

My paremeters remain stable. I cannot imagine they are the issue but they're always the first thing people ask so here they are.
Calc/alk/mag: measured with Trident ACM
Averages: 403/8.87/1189. Highs: 413/9.13/1203. Lows: 385/8.41/1175. That data is for the past week, but it is about the same for the past three months.
Salinity: 35ppt. Refractometer
Ph: average 7.99, high 8.35, low 7.7. Measured with apex.
No3 5.8 measured with hanna HR.
Phosphate 0.19 measured with hanna ULR

Assure refractometer is calibrated and do not calibrate with RODI water. To reassure your readings are accurate, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Pull off with metro which should be used when absolutely necessary and applied by weight and precise measurement and also makes food taste bitter. Also add air stone for now to assure adequate oxygen

 

[Zakary2003]

My fish are dying and I can't find the cause. It started with my male clownfish who died on September 18th. I had him since May and he was always a bit skinny and lethargic, so I just assumed he had bad genetics or was being outcompeted by the female clownfish. I started a three week metroplex/focus treatment at the recommendation of my LFS just in case and everything seemed fine. Well my neon goby disappeared this week despite looking totally healthy, and my yasha goby hasn't come out of her burrow in over a week as well. The candy pistol shrimp has been out, but the yasha goby has not, which is very unusual. I thoroughly searched the floor and the back filter chambers for jumpers and found nothing. The yasha could totally turn up since she went missing for 4 months one time, but I've never had the neon goby disappear before.

My female clownfish is also looking a bit skinny even though she is eating quite well.

My other three fish seem totally healthy. I have a fat, active tailspot blenny and a pair of borderline obese biota blue mandarins that are super active and eating fine.

What should I be doing to ensure the remaining fish survive? What would you guys suspect is the cause? Is it possible that everything is unrelated?

I don't do quaruntine. I really wish I could, but I live in a college dorm. I can barely get away with having the one tank, and I definitely do not have the space for a quaruntine setup even if I thought I could get away with it.

My paremeters remain stable. I cannot imagine they are the issue but they're always the first thing people ask so here they are.
Calc/alk/mag: measured with Trident ACM
Averages: 403/8.87/1189. Highs: 413/9.13/1203. Lows: 385/8.41/1175. That data is for the past week, but it is about the same for the past three months.
Salinity: 35ppt. Refractometer
Ph: average 7.99, high 8.35, low 7.7. Measured with apex.
No3 5.8 measured with hanna HR.
Phosphate 0.19 measured with hanna ULR

Assure refractometer is calibrated and do not calibrate with RODI water. To reassure your readings are accurate, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Pull off with metro which should be used when absolutely necessary and applied by weight and precise measurement and also makes food taste bitter. Also add air stone for now to assure adequate oxygen

The refractometer is calibrated using a cheap bottle of calibration solution from BRS.

I took my water to the LFS today to get tested and theirs read zero for ammonia and nitrite and less than 5 for nitrate. I didn't ask what kit they used. Their salinity matched mine and their alk reading was not in DKH (i think it was like meq/L or something) so I don't remember what it was, but they said it was fine. They didn't test my calcium or magnesium.

By "pull off" do you mean stop the treatment? That's how I interpreted it. I stopped the treatment yesterday since the three weeks was finished. But I only gave the meds for one feeding each day, and I feed twice a day since the mandarins have high metabolisms. So it's not like the fish were starving because the medicated food was gross. They still got an unmedicated feeding each day.

I always have an airstone running in the tank hooked up to a CO2 scrubber since my pH gets quite low without it since the tank is in my poorly ventilated dorm room. Oxygenation is definitely not a concern. I replaced the CO2 media two days ago so it's working fine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My fish are dying and I can't find the cause. It started with my male clownfish who died on September 18th. I had him since May and he was always a bit skinny and lethargic, so I just assumed he had bad genetics or was being outcompeted by the female clownfish. I started a three week metroplex/focus treatment at the recommendation of my LFS just in case and everything seemed fine. Well my neon goby disappeared this week despite looking totally healthy, and my yasha goby hasn't come out of her burrow in over a week as well. The candy pistol shrimp has been out, but the yasha goby has not, which is very unusual. I thoroughly searched the floor and the back filter chambers for jumpers and found nothing. The yasha could totally turn up since she went missing for 4 months one time, but I've never had the neon goby disappear before.

My female clownfish is also looking a bit skinny even though she is eating quite well.

My other three fish seem totally healthy. I have a fat, active tailspot blenny and a pair of borderline obese biota blue mandarins that are super active and eating fine.

What should I be doing to ensure the remaining fish survive? What would you guys suspect is the cause? Is it possible that everything is unrelated?

I don't do quaruntine. I really wish I could, but I live in a college dorm. I can barely get away with having the one tank, and I definitely do not have the space for a quaruntine setup even if I thought I could get away with it.

My paremeters remain stable. I cannot imagine they are the issue but they're always the first thing people ask so here they are.
Calc/alk/mag: measured with Trident ACM
Averages: 403/8.87/1189. Highs: 413/9.13/1203. Lows: 385/8.41/1175. That data is for the past week, but it is about the same for the past three months.
Salinity: 35ppt. Refractometer
Ph: average 7.99, high 8.35, low 7.7. Measured with apex.
No3 5.8 measured with hanna HR.
Phosphate 0.19 measured with hanna ULR

Can you post a video of the remaining clownfish?

It's probable that these losses are not related. The clowns could have genetic issues and losing small cryptic gobies is pretty common.

I'm guessing the tank has invertebrate in it and they are doing well? If so, that, combined with your water quality values rules out any fatally toxic water quality issues.

It is possible that the fish have a chronic fluke infestation, and that is just not affecting the mandarins due to their skin type (but I can't explain why blenny isn't affected).

It *could* be chronic underfeeding - where the mandarins are being "spot fed and the blenny is eating algae, leaving the clownfish and the other gobies lacking food.

Side note: don't mix Focus and Metro. I know it is suggested all the time, even by the manufacturer, but the dose isn't controlled when you just "mix it". To do it correctly, you need a gram scale and use 1% metro by weight in the food.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The refractometer is calibrated using a cheap bottle of calibration solution from BRS.

I took my water to the LFS today to get tested and theirs read zero for ammonia and nitrite and less than 5 for nitrate. I didn't ask what kit they used. Their salinity matched mine and their alk reading was not in DKH (i think it was like meq/L or something) so I don't remember what it was, but they said it was fine. They didn't test my calcium or magnesium.

By "pull off" do you mean stop the treatment? That's how I interpreted it. I stopped the treatment yesterday since the three weeks was finished. But I only gave the meds for one feeding each day, and I feed twice a day since the mandarins have high metabolisms. So it's not like the fish were starving because the medicated food was gross. They still got an unmedicated feeding each day.

I always have an airstone running in the tank hooked up to a CO2 scrubber since my pH gets quite low without it since the tank is in my poorly ventilated dorm room. Oxygenation is definitely not a concern. I replaced the CO2 media two days ago so it's working fine.

Pull off as in stopping , yes and a video using white light intensity, no blue light will help to see breathing, body weight, etc
Do you know how the LFS tested the water? If Api kit, I would suggest a water test without Api kits which can be less than accurate and for the purpose of elimination water toxicity as a chance

 

[Zakary2003]

My fish are dying and I can't find the cause. It started with my male clownfish who died on September 18th. I had him since May and he was always a bit skinny and lethargic, so I just assumed he had bad genetics or was being outcompeted by the female clownfish. I started a three week metroplex/focus treatment at the recommendation of my LFS just in case and everything seemed fine. Well my neon goby disappeared this week despite looking totally healthy, and my yasha goby hasn't come out of her burrow in over a week as well. The candy pistol shrimp has been out, but the yasha goby has not, which is very unusual. I thoroughly searched the floor and the back filter chambers for jumpers and found nothing. The yasha could totally turn up since she went missing for 4 months one time, but I've never had the neon goby disappear before.

My female clownfish is also looking a bit skinny even though she is eating quite well.

My other three fish seem totally healthy. I have a fat, active tailspot blenny and a pair of borderline obese biota blue mandarins that are super active and eating fine.

What should I be doing to ensure the remaining fish survive? What would you guys suspect is the cause? Is it possible that everything is unrelated?

I don't do quaruntine. I really wish I could, but I live in a college dorm. I can barely get away with having the one tank, and I definitely do not have the space for a quaruntine setup even if I thought I could get away with it.

My paremeters remain stable. I cannot imagine they are the issue but they're always the first thing people ask so here they are.
Calc/alk/mag: measured with Trident ACM
Averages: 403/8.87/1189. Highs: 413/9.13/1203. Lows: 385/8.41/1175. That data is for the past week, but it is about the same for the past three months.
Salinity: 35ppt. Refractometer
Ph: average 7.99, high 8.35, low 7.7. Measured with apex.
No3 5.8 measured with hanna HR.
Phosphate 0.19 measured with hanna ULR

Can you post a video of the remaining clownfish?

It's probable that these losses are not related. The clowns could have genetic issues and losing small cryptic gobies is pretty common.

I'm guessing the tank has invertebrate in it and they are doing well? If so, that, combined with your water quality values rules out any fatally toxic water quality issues.

It is possible that the fish have a chronic fluke infestation, and that is just not affecting the mandarins due to their skin type (but I can't explain why blenny isn't affected).

It *could* be chronic underfeeding - where the mandarins are being "spot fed and the blenny is eating algae, leaving the clownfish and the other gobies lacking food.

Side note: don't mix Focus and Metro. I know it is suggested all the time, even by the manufacturer, but the dose isn't controlled when you just "mix it". To do it correctly, you need a gram scale and use 1% metro by weight in the food.

I'll post a video when I get back.

Yeah, my inverts are fine. I have rock flower anemones, a bubble tip, hermits, snails, the pistol shrimp, and coral and they're all fine. Only one coral in my tank is doing poorly, and I'm fairly certain it is because my bubble tip anemone is in direct contact with it all day when it opens.

I'm not sure what flukes look like. I've looked at the fish pretty closely for ich and brooknella and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I also haven't seen the clownfish rubbing on anything other than the chalice coral she hosts.

I really doubt it is chronic underfeeding. Tbh, I majorly overfeed and just export nutrients as much as possible through water changes, carbon dosing, and the refugium. I feed half a cube of frozen food (1/4 cube mysis and 1/4 cube emerald entree) twice per day by broadcsst feeding, and I also feed very large quantities of live baby brine shrimp gut loaded with spirulina. If the fish are starving, it is not from a lack of being fed.

 

[Zakary2003]

The refractometer is calibrated using a cheap bottle of calibration solution from BRS.

I took my water to the LFS today to get tested and theirs read zero for ammonia and nitrite and less than 5 for nitrate. I didn't ask what kit they used. Their salinity matched mine and their alk reading was not in DKH (i think it was like meq/L or something) so I don't remember what it was, but they said it was fine. They didn't test my calcium or magnesium.

By "pull off" do you mean stop the treatment? That's how I interpreted it. I stopped the treatment yesterday since the three weeks was finished. But I only gave the meds for one feeding each day, and I feed twice a day since the mandarins have high metabolisms. So it's not like the fish were starving because the medicated food was gross. They still got an unmedicated feeding each day.

I always have an airstone running in the tank hooked up to a CO2 scrubber since my pH gets quite low without it since the tank is in my poorly ventilated dorm room. Oxygenation is definitely not a concern. I replaced the CO2 media two days ago so it's working fine.

Pull off as in stopping , yes and a video using white light intensity, no blue light will help to see breathing, body weight, etc
Do you know how the LFS tested the water? If Api kit, I would suggest a water test without Api kits which can be less than accurate and for the purpose of elimination water toxicity as a chance

Cool, I've stopped it. I'll get s video when I get back to my room. I do not know what test kit my LFS used. I know their refractometer was a hanna digital one, but they did the chemistry in one of the back rooms so I didn't see what they used.

 

[Zakary2003]

Here's a video of the clownfish right after feeding while the flow is still off.

 

[Tripod1404]

Here's a video of the clownfish right after feeding while the flow is still off.

This fish is emaciated.

 

[Zakary2003]

Here's a video of the clownfish right after feeding while the flow is still off.

This fish is emaciated.

Well she eats every feeding and I offer plenty of food. I've tried feeding with metroplex. What else could I possibly do?

 

[Tripod1404]

Well she eats every feeding and I offer plenty of food. I've tried feeding with metroplex. What else could I possibly do?

How much you are feeding and what?

 

[Zakary2003]

Well she eats every feeding and I offer plenty of food. I've tried feeding with metroplex. What else could I possibly do?

How much you are feeding and what?

I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I feed frozen food twice a day every day. Both times they get frozen mysis and emerald entree (about a quarter cube each for half a cube per feeding) plus a massive amount of live baby brine shrimp. I also sometimes offer a small amount of frozen bloodworms (maybe 1/8th of a cube) since that makes my yasha goby pop out of hiding. If that's considered underfeeding, then I give up.

 

[Tripod1404]

Try feeding pellets or flakes, they are denser forms of nutrition.

 

[Zakary2003]

Try feeding pellets or flakes, they are denser forms of nutrition.

She won't eat pellets or flakes. She just spits them out. Only my presumed deceased neon goby would eat them. The mandarins, yasha, and clowns wouldn't touch them. I tried tiny pellets, recommend pellets, and even the TDO they were supposedly eating before I bought them. I even tried soaking them in garlic.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I feed frozen food twice a day every day. Both times they get frozen mysis and emerald entree (about a quarter cube each for half a cube per feeding) plus a massive amount of live baby brine shrimp. I also sometimes offer a small amount of frozen bloodworms (maybe 1/8th of a cube) since that makes my yasha goby pop out of hiding. If that's considered underfeeding, then I give up.

I don't think you are underfeeding. I added that because I see that once in awhile here - people try to manage nutrients in their tank by limiting food, and the fish end up being skinny as a result.

So - why is the fish thin, despite it eating well? Internal worms can cause that, but so can a genetic issue with "fancy" clowns, where they suffer from "malabsorption". There can also be internal protozoans that can cause this. Metronidazole at 1% in the food, fed every three days for three treatments can help with that. Tapeworms can be treated with praziquantel in the food (tough to do as the dose is 50 mg per kg of fish mass, so you need to know the weight of the fish) but prazi in the water at the normal 2 ppm dose works also and doesn't require knowing the weight of the fish. Internal nematode worms require a different treatment.

 

[Tripod1404]

Did you try mixing them with frozen food? I had luck with mixing pellets or flakes and letting them soak for 15 mins. This will make dry foods taste like frozen and vice versa. You may need to to this for some time before they start eating mixed in dry foods.

After that try gradually reducing the amount of frozen in the mix until at least one meal is only dry foods.

At least my experience with anthias is that only ones with long term survival are the ones that I was able to wean into accepting dry foods. The ones that only eat frozen always had issues with keeping their weight.

 

[Idech]

Your clown is skin and bones. Feed it by hand with a pipette to make sure it eats. Frozen food and you can add vitamins and garlic.

 

[Zakary2003]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread. I feed frozen food twice a day every day. Both times they get frozen mysis and emerald entree (about a quarter cube each for half a cube per feeding) plus a massive amount of live baby brine shrimp. I also sometimes offer a small amount of frozen bloodworms (maybe 1/8th of a cube) since that makes my yasha goby pop out of hiding. If that's considered underfeeding, then I give up.

I don't think you are underfeeding. I added that because I see that once in awhile here - people try to manage nutrients in their tank by limiting food, and the fish end up being skinny as a result.

So - why is the fish thin, despite it eating well? Internal worms can cause that, but so can a genetic issue with "fancy" clowns, where they suffer from "malabsorption". There can also be internal protozoans that can cause this. Metronidazole at 1% in the food, fed every three days for three treatments can help with that. Tapeworms can be treated with praziquantel in the food (tough to do as the dose is 50 mg per kg of fish mass, so you need to know the weight of the fish) but prazi in the water at the normal 2 ppm dose works also and doesn't require knowing the weight of the fish. Internal nematode worms require a different treatment.

I did a three week treatment with metroplex already. I might look into the other options you mentioned

 

[Zakary2003]

Did you try mixing them with frozen food? I had luck with mixing pellets or flakes and letting them soak for 15 mins. This will make dry foods taste like frozen and vice versa. You may need to to this for some time before they start eating mixed in dry foods.

After that try gradually reducing the amount of frozen in the mix until at least one meal is only dry foods.

At least my experience with anthias is that only ones with long term survival are the ones that I was able to wean into accepting dry foods. The ones that only eat frozen always had issues with keeping their weight.

Yes. She still won't eat them. I used to havea group of chromis that would eat the pellets, but they outgrew the tank. When they were in the tank, I would mix the pellets and flakes in with the frozen food, and the clownfish still wouldn't touch them.

 

[Zakary2003]

Your clown is skin and bones. Feed it by hand with a pipette to make sure it eats. Frozen food and you can add vitamins and garlic.

I've been adding garlic. I might add vitamins. I've been target feeding her since the male died and she has been eating.

I keep trying to tell everyone this but nobody is listening. The issue is not that she isn't getting enough food. She is fed heavily and I see her eat at every feeding. It has to be something up with her after she eats the food.