Fishelss Cycle Questions

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Hey this is great. Those items are what tanks with totally live rock / pure skip cycle tanks are presenting and what dry rock setups are missing. If you combine that effort to seed mid level benthic animals plus hq reef feed, plus deep blue lighting from a light shown to to grow corals on example threads, plus demo’d ammonia control, that is scientifically the allowed start date.

our hobby is built on arbitrary time waits. That above is a specific start time, heck of an effort you’re doing !

once you’ve assembled all this, hand guide those rocks into compliance. Never let them beard over like when we dive mask + lake all the rocks are green whispy algae bundles


people should never do that to reefs it’s the dumbest recommend ever put in print by reefers on a daily basis. Waiting for eutrophication shift to take place at a given location in nature is years long wait for funk to self correct


but in 2020 we don’t have to follow nonsense rules. We can lift out rocks, use a knife to literally whittle cut or tip dig out growths we don’t want. Rinse, set rock back. Without jacking coral water and waiting months all passively, nowadays we can simply stock corals force the substrate to comply and be proud of our tanks always, especially to other viewers. Some use peroxide on the external occasional clean guide, because it cleans out algae and never harms filter bacteria. All kinds of cheats exist to counter purposefully wrecking ones investment as the masses certainly recommend.

the uglies phase is written, prescribed and promoted to literally 100% of all reefers without question and to question purposefully ruining our own reef tanks as the starting practice gets you flamed and publicly doubted / jibed. To this very hour it’s being prescribed in the general reef forum, it’s a hobby staple. it is the worst concept ever introduced to reefing and most of us happily promote it, without spending one hour in the invasion forums figuring out what it really takes to ensure zero loss.

in my opinion you force clean a new reef until coralline algae takes it over and now it’s all on cruise control, we start busy mode and slowly back off.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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But I digress though, 3/4 of the work to be done in the nuisance forum is with tanks already doing those. Those harm corals if you don’t nail the balance just right luckily


the reaction should be purely physical guiding by actively accessing the rocks trust me there is no better way. It’s fixed ten thousand reefs for sure yep.

altering those params in the new reef lends dinos challenges


spend time reading in the nuisance algae forum, be doing opposite of what makes tanks present there


theyre all hands off, test and respond water strippers. Invaded.

the 1% willing to access are invasion free and doing most of the fix work heh
 

brandon429

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Expect in your rock stacking to be accessing the stack in portions, Murphy’s law says the very bottom areas at times, don’t make it set and forget that’s what all wrecked reefs have in common. Reasons they won’t or can’t access is the sole cause of all reef invasions it’s not chemistry issues it’s human resolve issues.

try and find a pico reef on any forum that has an invasion problem, easy access means no invasion. Pico keepers don’t care about params they’re rock gardeners with stacked corals


As the rock matures into solid coralline bricks you can then back off and do the cruising envisioned for sure. It’s not permanent gardening its anticipation gardening, to never ever lose your investment, knowing Murphy is going to plant an invader in the number one spot you ‘can’t‘ access is the key to never having to start over, never losing corals to excuse X


just now in nuisance algae forum I bumped a thread daring anyone to post their GHA challenges - a dare to see if access cleaning can’t work. 100% of gha challenges can be fixed pretty easily, we show. They can be prevented the same way we fix them, never measuring nitrate or phosphate but by keeping detritus (algae feed) low in the system, because we access to keep things clean.


i like how we are far past nitrifiers / cycle starts and into deep tank management, we are off like a rocket.


my method is wholly unpopular lol let the record reflect in any poll, 3% agree 97% vehemently against


I wanna see the 97% doing some logged work, make a dare thread in the nuisance forum we can compare results.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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@brandon429 I tested the water parameters this morning. Had an odd ammonia test.

Calcium: 380
Alkalinity: 7.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40-50
Ammonia: .8 with Red Sea, 0 with API - tested a second time with Red Sea, and it was zero.

So I don't know if maybe I screwed up the first test putting in too much or not enough reagents, but panicked a little bit. No fish distress, looking happy as can be still, so I assume I messed the first Red Sea ammonia test up somehow.
 

brandon429

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Only the readings from a Seneye test can be trusted. Not a prob. Use four different non seneye tests, get four different readings. The animals are the best indicator of free ammonia, because as soon as there’s not enough surface area all fish will die over nite a few days ago :)


those concerns are why we don’t use testing in the microbiology of cycling thread yep, too few seneyes out there.
 

brandon429

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Can do a water change to alleviate any concerns. there is no time a water change is harmful as long as pour back doesn’t cast up waste stores (clean a reef before this happens) it exports waste etc and oxygenates when we pour back in. If a cuc member died like a snail or something a small spike of ammonia won’t wreck the tank it’s strong, but without digital testing we will not know if testers are cross reading params like nitrite can do with nitrate, or if water preps like Prime have been used, which causes false safety readings.


someone on the internet simply saying a test kit is wrong doesn’t mean much :)


so, we can use the collective power of the chemistry forum to proof it or shoot the claim down. The equation is: + post dumb stuff in the chem forum - get humbled by nine angles from several very smart chemists who love nothing more than finding gaps in a measure.



im not sure anyone in reefing has found why testers will show some ammonia, after having not done so earlier. We can’t account for a reading like that when fish swim day after day, but seneye here shows how real ammonia reads, low hundredths on a cycled tank


the action of true free ammonia is so profound we can see it in a tank without having the measure even with a seneye. The seneye above simply shows that typical surface area in a reef tank is so hungry for ammonia at all times, measures will hardly be above hundredths ppm at any given time. I would enjoy seeing what a couple degrading shrimp or a dead fish shows in a seneye tank, it would be neat to see how much rot it truly takes to over power active surface area filtration.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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Nothing died in the tank, and no Prime has been used. I did find a partial shrimp molt when I got from work yesterday, it was stuck on the Tunze powerhead. I thought at first a shrimp got in the powerhead, but then found both shrimp alive and well. I got the molt out of the tank, but it was only about half of it, couldn't find the other half.

I'm pretty confident I screwed up the first Red Sea ammonia test somehow.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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Added the Green Torch, Long Tentacle Purple Anemone, Pulsing Xenia, and five Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs. Have the lights off now, but they are already starting to open back up from shipping.
 

brandon429

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we should do a nice big water change catchup when you can, its cpr breath/in out so good for new bioload tanks. there are irritants other than ammonia to export, this is so good for the system to be exchanging water before needs arise. those corals will do great
 

brandon429

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Hey are things still looking good here
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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They are looking great. The torch and anemone are fully open, but the pulsing xenia frag is probably not going to make it. The crabs won't give it a break, it's about 1" tall, and they are brutalizing it. All five fish and two shrimp are happy as well.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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Things are still looking great as far as quality of life for the live stock. I've noticed some brown spots starting to form on the rocks. I assume it's diatoms, but not 100% sure. Time for the GFO reactor to get turned on?
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brandon429

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opinions vary strongly there. today's most up to date science on dinos invasions/tank destroyers has GFO being used in a very high number of cases in a dry start tank with low biodiversity, Id have to vote no due to that, the risk of dinos. in my way of cycling those growths are expected, they're the basis for future deposits like coralline but we have to hand guide/clean the rocks outside the tank when it really starts to build up.

opinons vary though, you wont get consistent answers and Im sure many have used gfo to no problem too. just reporting most updated material.
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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Suggestions to get ahead of this? Phosphates are near zero according to the API test. Toothbrush them off and hope they get into the filter sock? The lights are in acclimation mode, running at 50% initially.
 

brandon429

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I would just leave them until it builds, but all those are viable options. For any easy rocks, lifting them out and cleaning outside tank/light brushing off and saltwater rinse down the sink is best, it is pure export vs recirculation export. These early pigments arent a concern its the gha that makes me take big action. Be running your lights hardly any white/heavy blue to reduce bad growths and support corals nicely. white light will accelerate your uglies faster than any param; the whole inside of the tank is reflective until its purple.

if your corals are being spot fed sufficiently, and the water is exchanged (1 or two partial changes by now as part of routine) the params for nitrate and phosphate won't be off. Mainly its feeding your corals and changing the water, busier vs hands off, that is the secret to success imo
 
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BeaverLakeAndy

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Just a quick video to show the happy fish, anemone, and torch. Two Premium Onxy Picasso Clownfish will arrive Friday too!
 

JumboShrimp

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I presume follow for 80 days (suggested above) means from the ‘last’ coral introduced— since each new wet addition could reintroduce Ich (etc.), correct?
 
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