Fishless cycle - concerned about stalling

brandon429

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This cycle is done.
Nothing left to measure, do the big water change and begin


you met the dates on the bottle bac label, it was ten days.

plus ammonia control is set, see Randy’s post. Choose a fish disease protocol from the fish disease forum. Ammonia control is ready but fish disease will take them by august
 
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capito2007

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You’re a genius! I’ll be doing this tonight for sure! And if I determine that I’m at or above 5ppm. Water change or just let it do it’s thing?
 
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capito2007

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This cycle is done.
Nothing left to measure, do the big water change and begin


you met the dates on the bottle bac label, it was ten days.

plus ammonia control is set, see Randy’s post. Choose a fish disease protocol from the fish disease forum. Ammonia control is ready but fish disease will take them by august
Fish disease will have them by August? Explain please
 

brandon429

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Test no more your cycle is done, it can’t be not done.

simply do the water change and add some starter corals. If you add fish now even though the tank can carry ten fish, you’ll be posting for disease help in three months and they’ll die. Need to fallow and qt all fish per the fish disease forum. Click on that forum and choose a prep method for fish


read a while today on our fish disease forum about fallow and quarantine it’s the only way your fish will stay alive. In that forum you can see the daily posts from folks who skipped fish disease preps. What you won't ever see is non quarantine advocates fixing disease issues in public reefs, their tales remark on their own reefs only, not an ability to fix others like they do here

 
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capito2007

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Instead of me spending all day trying to read through that, how about you throw me out a suggested plan and I’ll start with researching your suggestion. TIA
 
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brandon429

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Specific plan: test no more for ammonia and nitrite

Change all or most of your water and add corals and clean up crew. Still read for two hours on the fish disease forum anyway. Make your own design for fish disease after study. It's not a small subject, can't be captioned. Study time
 

brandon429

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This shows what happens with no disease preps and you can see what they recommend as the fix

How to quarantine, what meds to use has to match the fish, what fallow means all come from the disease forum it really will take a couple hours to get ready. You still get to add corals and clean up crew now, feed, change water enjoy tank etc. Fallow means your fish go in after a certain number of days delayed
 
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capito2007

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This shows what happens with no disease preps and you can see what they recommend as the fix
While in no way do in undermine the prep needed and required, additionally, suggested... especially when there’s potential to have thousands of dollars tied up in livestock.. I’m more or less asking you, what your fallow/qt protocols are. You seem very passionate about the subject, understandably, so instead of me trying to read through stuff I don’t really understand.. what better way than to get advice from someone who does that I can use as a base to begin understanding the process. I don’t need a scientific explanation.. just a simple days in qt and medications to dose during the period.
 

brandon429

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It cannot be broken down that way its too nuanced. Study time anyway

The cycling part was easy to break down, you're done. But fish disease, like learning all algebra off one summary


I wouldn't be able to state all variables with a basic recommend, fish disease control has to match which fish you're using so research per fish group is needed.
Tangs are more likely to contain X disease compared to an engineer goby for example, they'd match specific meds during qt to what the tang is most likely to need

Gotta self enroll in online fish disease study/ only way. After study post questions in that forum for clarity, they have specialized answers there related to disease questions. Good thing is you don't have to click all over for study material, read all stickies and posts first twenty pages you'll have a strong base in marine fish disease preps no joke
Your lfs also cannot summarize anything helpful in the matter only legit dedicated study bc you're hungry for success
 
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capito2007

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Understood. Well let me ask you this... As far as a QT tank.... Do I need to cycle that as well? or just make some water and throw it in a 10gal tank with some minor filtration? I do have an empty tank in my garage intended to be used as a med tank. along with a cheapo HOB filter. Assuming I could probably throw a used filter floss in the filter somewhere to act as my bio? no should suffice for 30 days or so.
 
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brandon429

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I thought of one true short summary :)

If two common clowns are all the tank will ever see, put them in with no prep and more than likely they will be fine.

But if you want literally anything beyond two clowns all the above applies
 

brandon429

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The qt tank needs at least a cycled sponge filter or hob filter
 
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capito2007

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So after doing some research and reading reviews, I found a product that is surely going to help reduce the likelihood of me introducing something unwanted into my DT. RubyReef Hyrdoplex is a formulated dip:
Ruby Reef HydroPlex is a scientifically developed copper free, antibiotic free, broad spectrum water treatment that is effective for the control of parasites and microscopic organisms found in aquaria and ornamental ponds including bacteria, ciliated protozoa, dinoflagellates, copepods, small helmenthics and annelids, molds, fungi, yeast and microalgae. HydroPlex is also proven to be effective for the elimination of brown slime due to diatoms, as well as for the control of viral diseases. It is especially effective and strongly, recommended, in a dip regimen for cleansing new arrivals of unwanted parasites and bacteria, especially if a quarantine tank regimen is not practical. It is very effective for treating diseased fish via a dip regimen or in hospital tanks. HydroPlex contains a unique blend of trade secret anti-microbial formulations available to the hobby industry exclusively through Ruby Reef. These formulations are widely used in over-the-counter health care products and in a broad range of cosmetics and beauty aids. In-other-words, they offer broad-spectrum protection against infectious disease, while being safe for human and animal exposure as well as for disposal down the drain. The ability to blend these formulations in a single aqueous solution was made possible by the development of a biologically inert stabilizing system. Specifically, the HydroPlex stabilizing system allows the component ingredients comprising three formulations to be combined in one solution without any loss in the range or effectiveness of any of the three anti-microbial activities. In fact, if stored away from bright light or direct sunlight, HydroPlex has a shelf life of 5 to 10 years at room temperature. Available in 32-ounce refill.

I went looking for something of the sort because QT and medicating is something I'm not ready for being so new into the hobby. While I agree we should all have some sort of plan in place, to introduce fish into their "forever home"...doing it improperly due to lack of understanding, is not fair to them. I feel comfortable using a formulated solution that reduces my error likeliness.

I'd also like to note, that I DO have a UV sterilizer on my DT to assist my fight.

And as far as stocking goes. I don't plan to go heavy. Looking to do a few inverts, a sand dweller, two clowns, and perhaps a wrasse and a blenny... but introduction is going to be stretched out - way out
 
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brandon429

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that recommend is not in the disease forum stickies, not used in rehabs on the forum it's a shortcut, the descript is a sales writeup from the company. Won't work. You're free to experiment though. the product itself hasn't harmed any reefs itself its just the allowed buildup of disease it's not curing becomes the risk.


reason its not in the disease forum: the gentleman running that forum relaying protocols to us runs a gazillion dollar zoo aquatics exhibit, and those bottled additives are a total joke in those circles but not among our peers. we will buy anything based on relayed word of type from another peer.

but in that forum, only one way stands out and studying it takes a good while, some active questioning posted in there to hone details you've read that need clarifying etc
 
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Afish70

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Ok all I have a question for you. I am on Day 7 of my cycle, when I tested last night and every night to this point my Ammonia was at 4ish, Nitrite 0 & Nitrate 0. What is going on with my cycle? I used Dr. Tim's One and Only and it seems like nothing is happening at all. Kindly advise.
 

brandon429

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Id say 60% of all Dr Tims cycles report exactly that yet all turn out the same in the end.

check out this one 8 ppm one, and how we fixed it:


In your case you have a small % chance the bottle bac is dead but Ive never seen it once, in any cycle Ive done. I have seen it happen in other's cycle studies a few times.


so to eliminate this doubt take your system and wait to day 15 then do the above/full water change and its cycled.

day 15 on any cycling chart means its duration cycled for ammonia control, that's the backup if your bottle bac was dead at the chance of .001%

even if your bottle bac was dead, circulating that much ammonia feed will spur the natural filtration bac that vector in just fine, change it all out on day 15 and begin reefing with cuc and beginner corals.

notice how only ammonia factored we do not need to know nitrate or nitrite to factor a cycle start date in 2021.
 
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brandon429

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just so it doesn't look like I purvey total anarchy lol

-we are meeting or exceeding the submersion dates on bottle bac labels in every case

-we are factoring the patterns from thousands of other online cycles + feedback and that's only from the years 2019-2021
there's two decades prior to that scattered about reefcentral, nano-reef.com etc


-we meet the duration timeframes for ammonia control on all cycling charts from any web page or book.

-where we differ is old school cycling has 100% of everyone wait as long as it takes to clear all 3 params, be it fifteen days or links I have that show 90 days still waiting after paying for speed cycle bottle bac. That's unacceptable just like dialup internet is now unacceptable though its still internet. what we do in updated cycling science is change all the water out on the day you want to begin, after or near the date on the bottle's label. it works every time. the filter built up on the rocks and sand anyway while the 5 ppm swirled above. or 8 ppm it doesn't matter

for large tankers that can't do this step, input ammonia from a pre measured dose that way your nitrate maximums are already factored and you can skip the big change.

Test kits that are color tube comparisons have wrecked cycling for this hobby and tricked us into thousands of dollars of expenditures. we're in process of ending that
 
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Azedenkae

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You’re a genius! I’ll be doing this tonight for sure! And if I determine that I’m at or above 5ppm. Water change or just let it do it’s thing?
Yeah you can do a water change to lower it below 5ppm, this seems to be recommended, and also one of the times during a cycle a water change helps. Personally I had nitrite reach above 12ppm and the cycle still worked, but that was with FritzZyme Turbo Start 900 where the microbes seem to be pretty robust.
Understood. Well let me ask you this... As far as a QT tank.... Do I need to cycle that as well? or just make some water and throw it in a 10gal tank with some minor filtration? I do have an empty tank in my garage intended to be used as a med tank. along with a cheapo HOB filter. Assuming I could probably throw a used filter floss in the filter somewhere to act as my bio? no should suffice for 30 days or so.
Yes, you do need to cycle the QT. I can't really help further since I don't QT, even though I probably should. XD

I also have never seen Ruby Reef before, gotta read up on that a bit more first.
 

Azedenkae

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Ok all I have a question for you. I am on Day 7 of my cycle, when I tested last night and every night to this point my Ammonia was at 4ish, Nitrite 0 & Nitrate 0. What is going on with my cycle? I used Dr. Tim's One and Only and it seems like nothing is happening at all. Kindly advise.
Honestly, you seem to be one among quite a few people recently who has trouble with Dr. Tim's One and Only. I don't really know why, the product should be able to work, but seven days with no nitrite produced is kinda odd. My only suggestion is either to wait it out, or try a different way to introduce nitrifiers into your aquarium.
 
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capito2007

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Yeah you can do a water change to lower it below 5ppm, this seems to be recommended, and also one of the times during a cycle a water change helps. Personally I had nitrite reach above 12ppm and the cycle still worked, but that was with FritzZyme Turbo Start 900 where the microbes seem to be pretty robust.

Yes, you do need to cycle the QT. I can't really help further since I don't QT, even though I probably should. XD

I also have never seen Ruby Reef before, gotta read up on that a bit more first.
I had never either until I was watching a BRS video this morning and they showed a few items you can use for dipping (They don't much seem to suggest QT either - mostly dipping.). So I did a google search and came across it. Seems pretty promising, even so, BRS sells it. Not that their the "gods" of the hobby... but I certainly trust them
 
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