Fishless cycle: stalled? done?

[bayisland]

Brand new to the hobby here. This is my first attempt at a nitrogen cycle. I used the Dr. Tim's method and followed the instructions exactly. I'm getting a bit concerned because nitrite processing seem to be stalled. Here's my setup and parameters so far:

75 gal tank + 20 gal sump
live sand, dry rock
temp: 79-80 degrees
PH: avg 8.11
salinity: 34.5 ppt
RODI water
ammonia and nitrite test kits: Red Sea

• Day 1: Filled tank, added live sand, added bottle of Dr. Tim's One & Only + 4 drops per gal of Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride.
• Day 3: same ammonium chloride dose.
• Day 6: same ammonium chloride dose.
• Day 13: my LFS suggested I add some live rock and turn on the lights, which I did. Also added some coral which is doing fine.
• Day 16: (today) Ammonia has been at 0 for two days now. Nitrite seems to be holding steady around 1.2 ppm (the Red Sea maxes out at 1 so I'm estimating).

I'm not seeing any signs of algae or sliminess yet. I've also seen other posts where the advice is to ignore nitrite readings and just look at ammonia. So I'm wondering:

• should I be concerned that nitrite is not dropping?
• should I add more ammonium chloride to see if it processes?
• should I add a pair of clownfish now or just be patient and keep testing?

I don't know why things are taking so long since most people seem to have success with Dr. Tim's and the cycle is supposed to be done on day 9. I've done a few nitrate tests (Red Sea) and it comes back as 2 each time, not sure if that's even valid if nitrites are still present. Any help is appreciated.

Here is my ammonia (blue) and nitrite (orange). Day 1 was Dec 19 and I'm now on day 16 (Jan 3):

 

[misturrtinnie]

Have you done the water change yet? I've done this method before and after the water change it seems safe enough to add fish. Worked great for me. Now I'm trying a hybrid method where I used live sand, and hopefully I can add the bacteria and monitor parameters and see if everything is safe.

 

[ilikefish69]

depending on how much live rock you added, that was the "sticking a fork in it" in terms of cycling. if you have coral that is showing signs of growth, you are ready and actually will need a fish or two in your tank to continue to provide ammonia which turns into coral food through said nitrogen cycle

a reading of 2 nitrate is plenty of nitrate to feel confident in a completed cycle with the addition of live rock + bottled bac to the system

 

[Cell]

Cycled. Nitrite takes awhile to come down, but it is not toxic to marine fish. Ammonia is being processed. Dr. Tim's is well vetted. You are good to start stocking slowly. Once nitrite goes down, you can start accurately testing nitrate.

 

[damsels are not mean]

If you put ammonia in and have nitrite, it's safe for fish.

. if you have coral that is showing signs of growth,

I wouldn't trust that the tank is safe for animals with gills just because corals are looking good.

 

[bayisland]

Have you done the water change yet? I've done this method before and after the water change it seems safe enough to add fish. Worked great for me. Now I'm trying a hybrid method where I used live sand, and hopefully I can add the bacteria and monitor parameters and see if everything is safe.

I have not, except for a few gallons I used to acclimate/clean the coral. My understanding was that the first water change is to get nitrates down after the cycle is done(?)

 

[brandon429]

the reason your cycle is done is for these reasons:

-you have surpassed the pre calculated number of days to wait (10) after adding common bottle bac. it was likely ready day one, it was just your test kit that took this long to show an ammonia drop/non digital test kits do that. lag times. any kicking up of waste or moving rocks spikes the test kit seeming like an ammonia spike but it never is

-you have shown an ammonia drop, that means the cycle is done and all your surfaces are coated in bac after this many days wait/adhesion time. there is no degree of 100% water changes that can undo your cycle, it can never starve, it will remain as long as your tank is wet. your cycle will even endure large temp and salinity changes.

-nitrite has no factor in reef display cycling any longer, the places you read that it did factor came from a bottle bac seller who won't provide the new chemistry updates (see any post by Randy Holmes Farley regarding nitrite-he isn't trying to sell things)

bottle bac sellers know your current nitrite levels (expected, a chart shows control nearing day 30) will cause you to buy more bottle bac; don't

nitrite simply has no bearing.

and lastly, from Jay's disease forum: waiting any longer can't make your tank safe for fish. direct disease preps make your tank safe for fish.

reef tank cycles don't stall, the person who said that was a bottle bac salesman and the peers online have been relaying that to each other accordingly. the new cycling rules help you begin disease preps right now, and concern over the cycle no longer.

 

[brandon429]

my LFS suggested I add some live rock


that part was a sales trick/on the basis of a stalled cycle it sounds like.

for sure that compound cycled you, but you had the ability to carry fish long before that live rock addition. stalled cycle reefing always leads to a sale, and new cycling science always leads to reading in Jay's disease forum and no type of sale or doubling up of cycling efforts.

don't bother nitrate testing on this tank for sixty days, it doesn't need it, and it's chemically not ready to give you an accurate nitrate reading anyway

wait two months before beginning and test and response regimen, now is the time to add some life and begin enjoying the quick cycle you paid for.

now is the time to learn manual algae invasion controls and to never let algae dictate how your investment looks, expect to work a lot to keep things tidy in a dry rock setup, those are the most initial work of any cycling choice.


*adding the live rock was a great move, just not for the reasons they sold it.

 

[brandon429]

Cell isn't it neat per his chart/that ten day drop on ammonia

it's nearly universal. some old rascal figured that out in 1952 I wish I knew who he was


-we need someone to research where cycling charts were invented. nobody knows on this site I think/ I do not know either. they've been recapitulated for fifty years or more in books, print, online now etc. even roughshod api testing at least shows the drop although we know not to expect zero at the end.

 

[bayisland]

my LFS suggested I add some live rock


that part was a sales trick/on the basis of a stalled cycle it sounds like.

He actually gave me the rock for free, so no sales tricks. He doesn't use bottled cycling methods--he does everything with ocean water and live rock. I've got a good LFS that I trust.

 

[bayisland]

Thank you all for the replies. Great community here. I'm heading out to get a few fish tonight!

 

[brandon429]

agreed that sounds legit.

 

[ilikefish69]

Thank you all for the replies. Great community here. I'm heading out to get a few fish tonight!

Wut u gettin I’m literally on edge of my seat

 

[killer2001]

Can we integrate a system where if the words "cycle" and "stall" are in the thread title, it automatically converts the thread into a private message directed to @brandon429 ?

 

[brandon429]

I pick up side jobs with public responses, this way:

Moving between tanks - advise needed

Hi, happy new year first and foremost. im picking up a new tank this week - same volume just a newer model. I have a bit of a issue - can I just move everything over including the old water without issue? Or will the new tank need to cycle again? I was tempted to change the display rock but...

www.reef2reef.com

heck if polled, 75% here on the bandwagon of groupthink would just as rather never hear the word rip clean again either



but I like the side jobs that keep coming, thousands cumulatively.

cycle work threads and their outcomes + rip clean threads and their outcomes is amazing data worth $ it takes grindage to generate the outcome data. sales/everyday for 21 yrs

 

[bayisland]

Wut u gettin I’m literally on edge of my seat

hope I didn't leave you hanging on the edge for hours:


yellow watchman
bristletooth tomini tang
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clownfish x2