Flow question

[Brew12]

The in tank pump on the MP40's are very quiet. The motor heads external to the tank only have a fairly quiet buzzing to them which I could make better by upgrading to the quiet drives if I wanted. I can get the two aligned almost perfectly and they will be very quiet for a period of time but an hour or so later they start sounding out of alignment again. Very frustrating.
I'm thinking about putting a big ph on each end and 2 smaller ph on the back wall forming an X that would cycle on and off. That should give me some good steady flow and some randomness.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

IMO, your set up should be good. Once you get sand in the tank you be able to see the flow better. The obnoxious bit about floe is its gonna change all day, so when you set it and say hey good job, you look back and say hey whats wrong, and if you leave it it goes back to being fine. At that point I say "oh yea, thats what random means"

IMO the only dead spot is behind the rock. the restll be fine.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm not even sure it's disagreement, @saltyfilmfolks. Maybe a hashing out of terms? :)

Random flow comes from the propeller. (You can see it visually in the video, in fact.)

Laminar flow is not especially part of the flow from a propeller.

Tidal flows are mostly laminar and this (laminar flow) is what all corals experience, even below the surge zone.

Most of the Tunze pumps have been modified, engineered if you will, to assure an acceptable degree of laminar flow. The wide-flow models - 6020, 6040, 6095, 6150 – are notable exceptions.

Waves from something like a controllable pump are arguably useful as they oscillate all water in the tank in two directions. I'm not sure I've seen a tank with waves that made me say "Wow" any louder than comparable tanks without waves though. That's the only reason I say arguable.

Surge and waves are probably not the same thing. Surge, in the few examples I'm familiar with, is a lot of water entering the system with a lot of force. (Surge does cause waves, though!)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

That's the only reason I say arguable.

Agreed! and always just a good way to exchange Ideas.

 

[Brew12]

IMO, your set up should be good. Once you get sand in the tank you be able to see the flow better. The obnoxious bit about floe is its gonna change all day, so when you set it and say hey good job, you look back and say hey whats wrong, and if you leave it it goes back to being fine. At that point I say "oh yea, thats what random means"

IMO the only dead spot is behind the rock. the restll be fine.

Sorry, I attached an older picture. I actually do have sand in it and that is why I was worried about the center. I was using 2 cheaper powerheads when I set it up and it kept blowing sand out of the middle unless I was very careful how I aimed them. The MP40's didn't cause that problem.
I changed back to the 2 cheaper pumps this morning and I like it better. More flow with much less noise.

Current pic, I find it hard to do a fts on a tank this wide!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Nice!

 

[Brew12]

Nice!

Thanks! I'll be honest, this is way too much for a first time aquarium. I love taking on challenges so I'm making it but I would never recommend starting with this size tank for anyone new to the hobby. Not unless they have some local knowledgeable help! This forum has been beyond helpful.

 

[jsker]

I am a gyre person, low profile, different setting and good water movement on top and good circulation. I did put a MP 40 2 thirds down to move keep the water moving low. I turn the Mp 40 down to 10% at night time and will get the new controller for the Gyre so that I can turn the flow down at night to about 20%

 

[jsker]

Here is my gyre video :) got to love the ring tone, wait for ittttt:D

 

[hinovak]

What corals are you planning to dominate your rock work? certain softies and lps will be absolutely fine with the mp40s, where as if you get into sps, two mp40s at 100 percent might not be enough in the long run once they grow and start blocking flow.

 

[Brew12]

What corals are you planning to dominate your rock work?

Honestly? I haven't thought that far ahead yet. Still working on the basics of getting my tank ready. Trying to stick with reef safe stuff so I keep my options open. Guessing I will start with softies since they are supposed to be noob friendly.

 

[hinovak]

Honestly? I haven't thought that far ahead yet. Still working on the basics of getting my tank ready. Trying to stick with reef safe stuff so I keep my options open. Guessing I will start with softies since they are supposed to be noob friendly.

Yeah, honestly you have two of the best water movers ever made! I would just play around with all the different settings!

 

[bif24701]

I think Mcarrol and I will have to disagree a bit. Yea some of it is just sales. But randomness and surge are a good thing Imo..
Not sre about th 40's but most Ph get quieter as the bacteria and alge give them a little coating.

I have to agree with you there, the NTM and Reef Crest modes give my reef random flow that I think corals do need.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't buy into the beginner coral (or beginner fish) idea.

Those ideas were founded in the days when we didn't know how to keep fish or corals alive.

For coral, those days are long past. Growing stony corals involves nothing more complicated than what you'd do to keep freshwater (or marine) fish:

1. Add something to the tank every day.
2. Test often enough to know you're putting in the right amount.

Easy!

An automatic doser will help in both cases, fish and coral....but is probably more mandatory for coral. After a certain stage of growth, your corals will be very unhappy if you miss a day here and there because you are doing it manually. Thankfully, prices on dosing pumps aren't budget-busting like they used to be.

Spend some time to figure out what corals you really like before you willingly infect your tank with something you may grow to hate. If you love stony corals, go that way. If you love zonathids or other corals like that, go that way.

I knew I loved stony corals when I was starting my system, but everywhere I looked I saw these "hard" or "beginner" labels....so I ended up starting with mushrooms and zoanthids. :(:(:(:(:(

I could not have been happier when the last zoanthid was gone....nothing I did seemed to affect them, but the disappeared on their own after a few annoying years taking up valuable rock space. But there is nothing on earth that will get these mushrooms out of my system and they love to grow all over acro's, so I gave up on them a long time ago. Dunno why mushrooms grow on other corals less...but thankfully they do. :mad:

Forget the beginner labels. Just research what you find interesting – check here and in books – to make sure it's not an oddball, and make sure you're prepared for them. No big deal. Oddballs that truly require special care are best avoided, but are rare.

 

[mcarroll]

I have to agree with you there, the NTM and Reef Crest modes give my reef random flow that I think corals do need.

I think you're comparing those modes with other modes on the same pump....some may definitely be worse than others. But that doesn't speak to randomness of flow, it probably speaks to strength or power. Reef Crest is (or was, anyway...correct me if they've changed these) a high energy mode. There's certainly randomness, but this should mostly translate to more "ON time than "OFF", or very short periods of "OFF" so water doesn't have a chance to slow. I don't know what NTM means.

Check out that vid posted earlier and watch the flow meter bounce around – it's random alright! :) Beyond any effect added by the pump pulsing up/down in speed, there's an inherent pulsing in the water leaving the propeller as well. We don't need to try to make this kind of flow random.

(Plus, I'm not sure I said anything about random flow being bad, not needed or anything like that, did I?)

 

[bif24701]

I think you're comparing those modes with other modes on the same pump....some may definitely be worse than others. But that doesn't speak to randomness of flow, it probably speaks to strength or power. Reef Crest is (or was, anyway...correct me if they've changed these) a high energy mode. There's certainly randomness, but this should mostly translate to more "ON time than "OFF", or very short periods of "OFF" so water doesn't have a chance to slow. I don't know what NTM means.

Check out that vid posted earlier and watch the flow meter bounce around – it's random alright! :) Beyond any effect added by the pump pulsing up/down in speed, there's an inherent pulsing in the water leaving the propeller as well. We don't need to try to make this kind of flow random.

(Plus, I'm not sure I said anything about random flow being bad, not needed or anything like that, did I?)

Random is random, Reef crest varies intensity randomly. That's all it does but it equates to random flow through the system.

 

[mcarroll]

Seems like things have changed a lot since my old Gen 1's so my terminology is off. :)

Here's EcoTech's graph that shows what I meant to say: ;)

My guess it that "lagoonal" would do better when the pumps are in a less-ideal situation like this (too big a space) because the program cuts power to the pumps less-severely.

Most of the other modes they illustrate are similar to "reef crest" mode in this respect. In a more-ideal environment, these all work fine and as-expected, I am sure.

But in a less-ideal environment, corals at the edge of a pump's capability may become flow-starved (stressed) and detritus can be expected to settle.

 

[bif24701]

Seems like things have changed a lot since my old Gen 1's so my terminology is off. :)

Here's EcoTech's graph that shows what I meant to say: ;)

My guess it that "lagoonal" would do better when the pumps are in a less-ideal situation like this (too big a space) because the program cuts power to the pumps less-severely.

Most of the other modes they illustrate are similar to "reef crest" mode in this respect. In a more-ideal environment, these all work fine and as-expected, I am sure.

But in a less-ideal environment, corals at the edge of a pump's capability may become flow-starved (stressed) and detritus can be expected to settle.

My favorite more is the NTM

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks! I'll be honest, this is way too much for a first time aquarium.

Don't feel so pressured to make the whole tank rock all at once....that's a nonsense approach that often leads to tank collapse anyway.

Take your time. I waited months between most of my livestock additions and I felt like that was even rushing it sometimes.

Try to think of your tank as a really big 40 Breeder and stock it accordingly. It'll be easier to manage than any actual 40 Breeder, so it'll be great to learn on. Plus, when you're done – which should take some time! – you still have two more really big 40 Breeders left to stock..

Silly example, but it sort of applies. :P

You could even keep part of the tank unlit if that helps you focus on what you already have. (I've actually done this.)

Add your livestock slowly so you can learn about your supplier; learn about the livstock; learn about how they impact your tank management; and learn about how they interact with the other livestock. Et cetera! As you already know, there's a ton of learning....most of it comes by experience, and that takes time! :)

Folks who add a bunch of fish or a bunch of corals all at once are missing out on a lot of learning and experience by fast-tracking their tank in that manner. As a result, many don't know about their livestock; they don't know what to expect for changes to tank management and they've assured the changes will be large and sudden, rather than slow and gradual; and they don't know what reactions the livestock will have with one another. Experts might manage a situation like that, but you don't have to read through very many threads to find a flurry of newbies who foundered in the fast lane. "Expert" and "beginner" titles aside, this is still how I stock my tanks. I may add multiple specimens at once, but it's not many....and additions are space out by months.

2¢