Flucanazole the Acro Killer
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JCOLE
Grower of the Small Polyps
I dosed the same FluxRx as you. I feel your pain!
Don't shut it down though. I still have losses to this day. However, they are all the ones I expected to lose during this. I had most pieces RTN during the week of hell and then had some STN/RTN over the last 4 months. The ones that went over the last couple months were ones that looked really bad during the week of hell. I hoped they would pull through but didnt.
If you have any pieces that lost all its color, PE, etc then chances are they will not come back and will fizzle away. Not saying they won't bounce back but I didn't see it on my end. Also, the pieces I have that made it though and look great seemed to have stalled with little growth.
I had 75 Acros and now I am down to 8 originals. The last originals look good though. The good news is that I have added over 40 new frags over the last 2 months and they look great and haven't skipped a beat.
If you love it then don't shut it down. The damage has been down and I think it took a toll on both of our pieces. It's a hard thing to come to terms with but if you have any pieces that have lost all color, lost PE, and/or stalled with no growth for a while, then I hate to say it, but just remove those pieces and replace with new frags. My new frags make my tank look different as they are exploding with new growth where as my existing pieces act like they are too good for my tank.
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Love the tank!Once again the Flux stuff you scoop with the tiny spoon it comes with tends to be much tougher to gauge the proper amount you need to dose as I have friends that had negative effects using that and they believe either its got some added ingredients not good for coral or its overdosed. I told them to switch to the pill form which is the type I use and they have not had any negative effects from the pill form. Have no idea if there is some type of ingredient difference between the two but I've had no issues with the pill form and they haven't either. I think I mentioned I have alot of different types of corals and it hasn't affected any type in my tank. Here's a few pics for reference of my tank today and a white light pic from a couple months ago if I haven't posted any fts's. Clearly no issues from using the pill form of fluconazole.
TexasTodd
Valuable Member
Somehow I didn't find this thread before starting Reef Flux (capsules you open) 13 days ago. I used one bottle which says for 100 gallons on a 210 display with large sump and wall to wall SPS.
I did find info with mixed results for SPS and decided to dose 50% of the standard figuring that if it didn't work, I could dose more or run another course. I was losing a lot of coral due to the Bryopsis (had some but when I lost 7 fish during the Texas freeze / power issues, and couldn't get them out, the Bryopsis went nuts). So, it was treat or lose lots anyway.
So, no coral loss yet and 99% gone. I have one area under my very large Green Slimer that doesn't get much light and there is some hanging on there. I'm chicken to dose more. Plan is to put skimmer cup back on and WC at 14 days. If it starts to come back in that spot I'll do another 50% dose. I did do one water change of about 10% during the treatment because my eye starts to twitch without my skimmer going! But, I just dosed the correct amount of meds to replace what was taken out with the WC.
Those that had problems, what dKH do you run your Alk at?
Todd
I did find info with mixed results for SPS and decided to dose 50% of the standard figuring that if it didn't work, I could dose more or run another course. I was losing a lot of coral due to the Bryopsis (had some but when I lost 7 fish during the Texas freeze / power issues, and couldn't get them out, the Bryopsis went nuts). So, it was treat or lose lots anyway.
So, no coral loss yet and 99% gone. I have one area under my very large Green Slimer that doesn't get much light and there is some hanging on there. I'm chicken to dose more. Plan is to put skimmer cup back on and WC at 14 days. If it starts to come back in that spot I'll do another 50% dose. I did do one water change of about 10% during the treatment because my eye starts to twitch without my skimmer going! But, I just dosed the correct amount of meds to replace what was taken out with the WC.
Those that had problems, what dKH do you run your Alk at?
Todd
I just had this problem this week. I have a mixed reef tank that I’ve ran Reef Flux in before with no problems, but this time I’ve had one of my acros completely bleach in a matter of hours and a digi that is slowly bleaching. I keep my alkalinity at 7.4. I’m only on the fourth day with it in the water and am debating on doing a water change to try and get some of the medication out of the water before I get a shipment of new SPS frags tomorrow. The two corals that have bleached were in the tank when I used Reef Flux last time and they did just fine. All of my other SPS are looking fine, just with less polyp extension and my LPS and softies don’t look like they’re bothered at all. I don’t know what happened this time as opposed to the last time I used it. Same dosage, same flow, same brand of reef flux.
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Huskymaniac
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Should have chucked them 5 months ago after they were severely injured by fluconazole. Never recovered and today it finally started to jelly up in spots and RTN like everything else did previously. Saved a few tips to see what happens. About 6 years worth of growth about to become some nice house decorations.
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DoctaReef
Active Member
I just finished dosing Fluconazole and I had no issues with any of my coral, acros included.
My two tuxedo urchins survived just fine too.
GHA is wiped out.
One thing I did notice: I did an ICP test right at the end of treatment, and there was a significant depletion of some elements. Specifically Iodine, Strontium, Potassium and Boron. My iodine was undetectable…0. I dose 2 part with a trident, so Ca and Alk stayed stable.
Just a theory, but maybe it’s not the fluconazole causing an issue, but the prolonged lack of water changes messing up the chemistry.
My two tuxedo urchins survived just fine too.
GHA is wiped out.
One thing I did notice: I did an ICP test right at the end of treatment, and there was a significant depletion of some elements. Specifically Iodine, Strontium, Potassium and Boron. My iodine was undetectable…0. I dose 2 part with a trident, so Ca and Alk stayed stable.
Just a theory, but maybe it’s not the fluconazole causing an issue, but the prolonged lack of water changes messing up the chemistry.
RobB'z Reef
2500 Club Member
I'm still feeling the after effects months later and it's not just acros. I'll never use it again on a reef tank.
Smite
2500 Club Member
I've used it successfully in the past on an acro dominant tank. Same tank and same treatment but I'm hesitant to try it again. I've been going heavy in and heavy out so my nutrients are bottomed out but my colors and growth are still good. Overall the tank is as healthy as ever.
The zero nutrients has me worried, I'm sure there will be a spike and I wonder if thats part of what upsets uptake/stresses the acropora and potentially cause multiple little swings at once.
This last outbreak was also caused my my TDS creeping up in my RODI. I feel like the algae could have consumed some unwanted elements in the water and I'm worried if I kill it all off it will be released back into the tank possible causing a spike it metals, silicates ect.
If i do dose, I'll be removing as much as humanly possible prior and taking my refugium off line just to be safe. I do wonder if that's part of the "randomness" - what the algae originally started to consume and that being released back into the water when it dies off, nutrients and/or whatever is in the TDS.
The zero nutrients has me worried, I'm sure there will be a spike and I wonder if thats part of what upsets uptake/stresses the acropora and potentially cause multiple little swings at once.
This last outbreak was also caused my my TDS creeping up in my RODI. I feel like the algae could have consumed some unwanted elements in the water and I'm worried if I kill it all off it will be released back into the tank possible causing a spike it metals, silicates ect.
If i do dose, I'll be removing as much as humanly possible prior and taking my refugium off line just to be safe. I do wonder if that's part of the "randomness" - what the algae originally started to consume and that being released back into the water when it dies off, nutrients and/or whatever is in the TDS.
Smite
2500 Club Member
I was thinking of doing the same thing, but sending it out before turning the skimmer and carbon back on.
jgalvin
New Member
I'm not an active poster, but wish i saw this thread prior. My 4 year old tank had some turf algae (CUC would not touch) that was spreading, reading all the amazing reviews of fluconazole, i checked amazon and picked Flux Rx over Reef Flux (thought same), so the one with the small/big scoops. I bought 2000mg which is for 100g, which is my water volume, so put it all in (recommended dose). I am am day 11 since putting in.
At a few days in a couple of my torches started to pull in/shrink, about a week in those started to RTS and recede. Today, the algae turned white and is falling off the rocks, now losing a bunch of my LPS and even my bulletproof chalice is turning white. I would post a pictures, but so depressing to watch my healthy beloved corals die. Didn't know what to do so did a 20% water change today to try to stave off the die off. Just wanted to post my experience. Feeling sad.
At a few days in a couple of my torches started to pull in/shrink, about a week in those started to RTS and recede. Today, the algae turned white and is falling off the rocks, now losing a bunch of my LPS and even my bulletproof chalice is turning white. I would post a pictures, but so depressing to watch my healthy beloved corals die. Didn't know what to do so did a 20% water change today to try to stave off the die off. Just wanted to post my experience. Feeling sad.
Every time someone says Fluc killed their acros, its always the stuff sold by aquarium stores. I buy mine from a chemist and have used it several times on a packed SPS tank without any trouble at all, not even PE is affected.
My first time to see this thread, but I have read many and have (near) first hand experience with fluconazole use.
The bad use cases are IMO:
a) Uncommon but still a very real risk. Devastating tail risk for SPS.
b) Unrelated to typical hobbyist parameters. High nutrient/low. High ALK/low. Old tank/new.
c) *Unrelated to algae type targeted. Turf, GHA, bryopsis.
Moral: If you have Bryopsis, well, you are pretty much done for anyway. You are going to hate the tank until the point you tear it down anyway so why not dose it. Host your favorite SPS somewhere else and go for it.
If it is not Bryopsis and you have prized SPS then avoid this shortcut. Do the work.
Appendix:
I am no scientist for sure but why not speculate? Fluc is an anti fungal medication. We all have some mix of fungal species like sponges. Some sponges are known to carry toxins. Some tanks have them and some don't in quantity?
I also found interest in the quote I paste below. Fluc messes with cell walls in algae during photosynthesis. Ergesterol, pathways, as described by @Jose Mayo. It too would answer to the randomness and speak to a similar vector. Something that stores nasties until we attack it with Fluc. Then it lets loose.
The bad use cases are IMO:
a) Uncommon but still a very real risk. Devastating tail risk for SPS.
b) Unrelated to typical hobbyist parameters. High nutrient/low. High ALK/low. Old tank/new.
c) *Unrelated to algae type targeted. Turf, GHA, bryopsis.
Moral: If you have Bryopsis, well, you are pretty much done for anyway. You are going to hate the tank until the point you tear it down anyway so why not dose it. Host your favorite SPS somewhere else and go for it.
If it is not Bryopsis and you have prized SPS then avoid this shortcut. Do the work.
Appendix:
I am no scientist for sure but why not speculate? Fluc is an anti fungal medication. We all have some mix of fungal species like sponges. Some sponges are known to carry toxins. Some tanks have them and some don't in quantity?
I also found interest in the quote I paste below. Fluc messes with cell walls in algae during photosynthesis. Ergesterol, pathways, as described by @Jose Mayo. It too would answer to the randomness and speak to a similar vector. Something that stores nasties until we attack it with Fluc. Then it lets loose.
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Huskymaniac
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So the RTN spread from the flucanazole sick stag to some nearby by peices. I am in the process to start doing AWC non stop on the tank for the next few months. Last ditch effort before I move the fish to a new tank and start the tank brand new with all new sand and rock.
Sorry to hear the losses continue.
It is something Fluc attacks/kills that releases nasties. Some tanks have those "somethings" and most do not.
For some it might be a paly -- certainly a suspect in one tank I tested.
For others, maybe a fungi (this is an anti-fungal medication) that stores nasties and releases when assaulted.
Lastly, for me, it is all about bacteria and their place in feeding acropora. Acros need to eat some PO4, but can only do so indirectly by eating bacteria that eat PO4. My own personal pet theory.
I did ICP on an SPS Fluconazole catastrophe tank and measures were nominal. (Triton always measure low Iodine.) I am far from the first. We should look elsewhere.
It is something Fluc attacks/kills that releases nasties. Some tanks have those "somethings" and most do not.
For some it might be a paly -- certainly a suspect in one tank I tested.
For others, maybe a fungi (this is an anti-fungal medication) that stores nasties and releases when assaulted.
Lastly, for me, it is all about bacteria and their place in feeding acropora. Acros need to eat some PO4, but can only do so indirectly by eating bacteria that eat PO4. My own personal pet theory.
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Huskymaniac
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Still spreading this morning. Decided to just get a stock tank and break the tank down and reboot it. Starting with all new rock and new coral. I am sure this is probably going to kill some of my really old fish.
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