For those that don’t QT, why not

[MnFish1]

This thread was intended to just find out why people don’t QT. I don’t know how it got into a QT debate.
;Nailbiting ;Woot

If you want an honest answer - it became a debate when in your OP you said 'of course non-QT is better'. I don't QT Because MY LFS does it - and I buy healthy fish - in copper free water - and have never had a problem.

That said - when a person posts 'facts' that support non-QT (or QT) to me that isnt 'debating' - because I surely wasn't debating QT vs non QT. Likewise if I said 'I dont QT because it causes velvet' (of course thats false) - I would expect people would ask for some 'rationale or proof' of that statement - thats not a debate - thats common sense IMHO

 

[CelticReef]

This is just what I have noticed from browsing the forums and personal experience I honestly only keep one fish because I like coral more. sure maybe it’s boring but my rescued clown is 13 years old now I got him from a friend who quit the hobby and he has always been healthy....there are a few people who are successful QTing fish but for the past couple months I see more people kill probably healthy fish by putting multiple fish in tiny tanks with no biological filtration and loading them with meds when they have no signs of disease. Sure if a fish gets sick setup a med tank and prepare for daily water changes or prepare to euthanize but otherwise I think we are just increasing the cost of ornamental fish killing them in QT. The whole process is silly to me since we know the biological cycle and the amount of filtration mass these tanks need to sustain healthy fish. Hardly anyone follows that same cycle for a QT setup. Healthy fish fight parasites and disease daily ....so do healthy humans and we don’t medicate people because they might have a parasite or disease we make sure they have it via scientific tests and medicate appropriately. This is how all living species should be treated but that is just my opinion take it with a grain of salt no pun intended.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

- it became a debate when in your OP you said 'of course non-QT is better'.

My smiley face took precedence over the the written word. Let’s all chill, man.

This is not a debate on QT or not. (We already know non QT is better) It is a fact finding thread.)

dont QT because it causes velvet'

I agree on this 100%. Clownfish cause velvet.

 

[Ming_]

This is one of the very few threads that read every post..
Thanks to all that contributed.

Interesting discussion here as I was just contemplating if I want to set up a quarantine tank.

I belong to the "throw the fish into the main display tank from the fish shop" group. Some survived, some died of course. However I do notice that most fish that died, died within 2 weeks after I throw them in the main tank. Those that survived past the 1 month mark seems to be quite stable, even though I may have introduced "new sick fishes".

Why I am thinking of setting up a quarantine tank is because my new 3 day old flame angel just died with white spots all over, lemonpeel angel which is introduced together (fingers crossed) is still happily swimming around. More notably in my tank are a 6 month old Achilles and Regal tang that always have a few white spots on them in the morning.

This got me thinking if setting up a observatory tank, would it have increase the survival rates of the new fishes.
I not have read enough, but i somehow think there are not enough information on the fatality rates of fishes in medicated quarantine tank. Too many times, i read that fish died in quarantine tank are supposed to die because they are too badly infected or damaged. Maybe a fish that is healthy enough to survive the quarantine process may also be healthy enough if you just throw them in the main tank?

Then again, I have already bought all the medication, hanna copper test kit and small tank that will allow me to set up the quarantine tank in 20 mins. There is always the this anxiety attack that the new fish would infect and kill every fish in my tank. But as of now, all medication are still new in box sitting in my store room for the last 3 months. Having these medication around somehow bring a peace of mind to me, more than the fishes...

Cheers everyone.

 

[ScottR]

We’ve been here a thousand times before. I have a tank with NSW. Never ever QT. Never ever had an ich or parasite problem.

 

[Manthanol]

I get the rationale about not having the need for premedication and let nature do its thing, give them some good food, avoid stressing the fish but it really does not sound right to me. We do premedicated ourselves by the way of vaccines and without them we would see many cases of polio, measles and so on. These diseases can and do kill many people, the CDC estimates that Flu kills 12,000-79,000 people per year and possibly much more without vaccine. Since there are not any fish vaccine to my knowledge, premedication is a valid option to make sure that diseases are not passed around. Sorry I know this is a non-QT thread but I just had to put in my 2 cents.

 

[CelticReef]

You do realize a vaccine is just the virus in a dead or weakened state right ? So all we are doing is exposing ourselves to these viruses so we can build immunity.

 

[Manthanol]

You do realize a vaccine is just the virus in a dead or weakened state right ? So all we are doing is exposing ourselves to these viruses so we can build immunity.

It is a virus that has been manipulated by us to fight disease, created by us not by nature so in this sense it is a medication. Try to expose yourself to measles and see what happens to you... Then there is tetanus which is not a virus and so on, all diseases try to evade our immune system to take hold and medications are made to kill the offenders and/or improve your immune system.

 

[MnFish1]

You do realize a vaccine is just the virus in a dead or weakened state right ? So all we are doing is exposing ourselves to these viruses so we can build immunity.

If you are never exposed to those bacteria or viruses - what good is the vaccine (i.e. when is the last time you got a yellow fever or typhoid vaccine?). Obviously - the POV of people who QT (as I said above - I do not) - is that if you dont expose your tank to those pathogens - there is no need for the exposure. Some people believe in feeding parasites and bacteria to fish to 'maintain/provide' immunity. Anyone that believes this should ask their doctor to give them their tetanus etc vaccine by mouth instead of a shot..... (btw - no need for anyone to explain to me why that won't work in humans).

 

[MnFish1]

It is a virus that has been manipulated by us to fight disease, created by us not by nature so in this sense it is a medication. Try to expose yourself to measles and see what happens to you... Then there is tetanus which is not a virus and so on, all diseases try to evade our immune system to take hold and medications are made to kill the offenders and/or improve your immune system.

You're kind of incorrect - in the case of killed viruses - the coating of the virus stimulates the immune system the same way the virus does (as we recover from the virus) - in the case of an altered vaccine - in many cases people do get a subclinical illness (i.e. a less severe form of the disease - symptom- wise). In neither case would they be considered 'pre-medications'

 

[CelticReef]

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular disease. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it......please back to why we don’t QT.

 

[MnFish1]

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular disease. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as a threat, destroy it......please back to why we don’t QT.

You didnt answer the question as to why you don't QT

 

[Manthanol]

You're kind of incorrect - in the case of killed viruses - the coating of the virus stimulates the immune system the same way the virus does (as we recover from the virus) - in the case of an altered vaccine - in many cases people do get a subclinical illness (i.e. a less severe form of the disease - symptom- wise). In neither case would they be considered 'pre-medications'

Subclinical illness is only seen in attenuated vaccine which are live viruses not killed viruses because it's dead. The immune system recognizes short protein sequences present on the virues' cell wall. So you don't consider vaccine a type of medication? if not then what is it?

 

[CelticReef]

Few posts up I thought I did but anyways I think it’s silly to put a fish in a tank full of meds they don’t need. I can’t run blood tests on a fish for a disease so why medicate what you can’t test for ....I only keep one fish in my tank he’s about 13 years old no need to QT if I’m not adding fish ....I prefer coral.

 

[MnFish1]

Subclinical illness is only seen in attenuated vaccine which are live viruses not killed viruses because it's dead. The immune system recognizes short protein sequences present on the virues' cell wall. So you don't consider vaccine a type of medication? if not then what is it?

I know - thats what I said. In any case - what difference does it make to this thread? There are numerous sites explaining the difference between a vaccine and a medication - their similarities and differences . I think this is derailing the thread though. To answer you - no I dont consider a vaccine a 'medication' per se.

 

[Manthanol]

I know - thats what I said. In any case - what difference does it make to this thread? There are numerous sites explaining the difference between a vaccine and a medication - their similarities and differences . I think this is derailing the thread though. To answer you - no I dont consider a vaccine a 'medication' per se.

Got it!

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I’ve created a monster. I was just trying to get some reason those that do not QT, don’t. Wanted to justify if my own reasons for not doing QT are valid.

Please call me if needed, but I’m un-following my own thread. .

I’m gonna post some more on my dog build thread.

 

[CelticReef]

Of course this subject is always this way. You asked why ppl don’t QT sorry it was expected to go south.

 

[Paston1]

Personally I don’t because I take the science route. In the ocean 30% of the fish have ich. Chances are in my favor they don’t already. If the fish are coming from the same region the healthy ones were able to fight it. My biggest issue is put fish through a stressful process then you don’t QT coral. Well those things can travel via coral and inverts even though they don’t feed off it.
I personally think nitrate and illness have a relationship. Sure I have ich in my system but if nitrates are stable then I’ve never witnessed it in my tank.

 

[PeterEde]

With the like Rally pro and other in tank treatment is QT really necessary?