Forum Politics

[TheHarold]

I'm not going to go round and round with you. It's ALL vendors. Sponsorship has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Level playing field- ALL vendors paid or not. What's not consistent?

I use them interchangeably, as to be a vendor, you have to pay R2R.

You can swap out "sponsor" with "vendor" in my post. My point is the same.


"Move everything to vendor feedback, or move nothing. But please don't pretend that you aren't artificially forcing a sponsors forum to be positive.


I get that they are vendors that pay the forum, or sponsors. We need them. But acknowledge that you are not allowing negativity in their forums, yeah?"

I don't particularly care about out this issue. If someone paid me, I would would probably do the same. Just wanted to point out the inconsistency.

 

[Michael Gilbreath]

R2R and BBQ what a wonderful day

 

[HotRocks]

I use them interchangeably, as to be a vendor, you have to pay R2R.

You can swap out "sponsor" with "vendor" in my post. My point is the same.

Correct you have to be a sponsor to use the site for the purpose of selling commercially. You don't have to be a sponsor to be a participating member (even if you are a vendor).

However a feedback thread can be left for anyone who is a vendor. Sponsorship has nothing to do with it.

 

[MnFish1]

I want to try to alleviate any confusion. All threads that start as a complaint about a product or service "should be" considered vendor feedback. Even if the OP doesn't put it in vendor feedback. That's where it should be. So sometimes a thread may be a few pages long once it's either discovered by moderation or reported. Then it's moved and ALL outside comments other than the OP and said vendor are removed.

The purpose of this is in hopes that the vendor in question will join the thread and rectify the issue at hand.

Personally, I think it's much more productive than a pile on bashing thread. It's all left in plain view for anyone to read. So if you are planning to purchase from the said vendor you can see peoples experiences and decide if you want to give them a shot.

So this is more about resolution than trying to protect anyone. BTW, when you have time check some of the threads out. It usually works.

There are also plenty of instances where you know... There's two sides to every story so you may not necessarily see a resolution but "proof" from a vendor of why a situation was handled a certain way.

Like I said before - its the execution of the policy that to me needs to be tweaked - not necessarily the policy.

One policy could be 'no acute vendor feedback (between customers and vendors - i.e. acute issues like I bought a fish and it was dead and now they aren't refunding me) except by PM - and have the vendors who are members user names on a list to its easy to see. After the User and vendor have resolved their issue - the user can review/provide feedback in the vendors forum (as they prefer - i.e. I had a good experience with company x or a bad one.

Then - if a thread comes up like that - remove it. after that leave positive and negative comments in the vendors thread.

I'm not trying to suggest that this is the 'only ' or even the 'correct' solution - but it would at least be a 'consistent' solution.

 

[TheHarold]

Correct you have to be a sponsor to use the site for the purpose of selling commercially. You don't have to be a sponsor to be a participating member.

However a feedback thread can be left for anyone who is a vendor. Sponsorship has nothing to do with it.

You totally, entirely, wholly, thoroughly, fully, utterly, absolutely, perfectly, unreservedly, unconditionally, quite, altogether, downright, 100%, missed my point.

Was that intentional?

 

[kschweer]

I actually think this phrasing is the most.... difficult, because it EXPLICITLY shows that negative posts (complaints) are moved to a separate forum, while compliments/positive feedback or positive reviews of products are not.

The issue here is consistency. Move everything to vendor feedback, or move nothing. But please don't pretend that you aren't artificially forcing a sponsors forum to be positive.


I get that they are sponsors. We need them. But acknowledge that you are not allowing negativity in their forums.

There’s no pretending here. We do our best but can’t see everything that is posted. for you to imply this is just silly. I move plenty of positive posts from vendor forums as they do not belong there. Any post in a vendor forum that isn’t a direct question to the vendor, a vendor post or sale or info from the vendor should be moved and is as it’s seen. I wish some of you guys could see behind the scenes for a day cause I think you would be surprised. From trying to keep things friendly, mediate disputes, move threads, edit threads and posts, keep the sales forums clean and not full of non sponsoring vendors taking advantage and selling and much much more. Not to mention again it’s a volunteer thing. My wife just told me I need to take a break from things as I’m on here a good amount to try to keep things running as well as possible. It’s starting to feel not worth it with threads like this becoming the norm.

 

[TheHarold]

There’s no pretending here. We do our best but can’t see everything that is posted. for you to imply this is just silly. I move plenty of positive posts from vendor forums as they do not belong there. Any post in a vendor forum that isn’t a direct question to the vendor, a vendor post or sale or info from the vendor should be moved and is as it’s seen. I wish some of you guys could see behind the scenes for a day cause I think you would be surprised. From trying to keep things friendly, mediate disputes, move threads, edit threads and posts, keep the sales forums clean and not full of non sponsoring vendors taking advantage and selling and much much more. Not to mention again it’s a volunteer thing. My wife just told me I need to take a break from things as I’m on here a good amount to try to keep things running as well as possible. It’s starting to feel not worth it with threads like this becoming the norm.

This x 100o0.

I would 10000000% take "the positive ones are also supposed to be in feedback" as a great and complete answer. As long as they also can be moved to feedback, etc.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm not going to go round and round with you. It's ALL vendors. Sponsorship has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Level playing field- ALL vendors paid or not. What's not consistent?

Looking for a resolution for the member at hand. I'm sorry if you disagree with it. It's just a rule. Whether I like it or not we enforce the ToS. As well as the marketplace rules.

FYI - here is one where the posts are between the member and the vendor and multiple others. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-recommend-avoid-blue-zoo-aquatics.601928/. Only as an example.

 

[Michael Gilbreath]

I have to agree having them in different thread gives you a chance to see all postives in one and then go to negatives to see if they have any and respond or don't if they don't tells me they care more about your $ then there customers it works fine this way. If both were in same thread would be a lot more time to weed thru positive and negative feed backs. This is my thoughts not trying to argue just the way I feel. Michael

 

[MnFish1]

There’s no pretending here. We do our best but can’t see everything that is posted. for you to imply this is just silly. I move plenty of positive posts from vendor forums as they do not belong there. Any post in a vendor forum that isn’t a direct question to the vendor, a vendor post or sale or info from the vendor should be moved and is as it’s seen. I wish some of you guys could see behind the scenes for a day cause I think you would be surprised. From trying to keep things friendly, mediate disputes, move threads, edit threads and posts, keep the sales forums clean and not full of non sponsoring vendors taking advantage and selling and much much more. Not to mention again it’s a volunteer thing. My wife just told me I need to take a break from things as I’m on here a good amount to try to keep things running as well as possible. It’s starting to feel not worth it with threads like this becoming the norm.

No one is against you - and I would think everyone supports you. But - why cant anyone just agree - its inconsistent. Other mods (on this thread) have said that positive posts dont need to be moved from vendors - you're saying above (positive posts are moved - I think) - but I might not understand.

Its just unclear. Its not at all personal against you or anyone else.

 

[MnFish1]

I have to agree having them in different thread gives you a chance to see all postives in one and then go to negatives to see if they have any and respond or don't if they don't tells me they care more about your $ then there customers it works fine this way. If both were in same thread would be a lot more time to weed thru positive and negative feed backs. This is my thoughts not trying to argue just the way I feel. Michael

I thought that as well - until I tried to go into the vendor feedback forum which has 20 pages or so - and is not organized by vendor.

 

[Michael Gilbreath]

No but you can always do a search and get what you need that weeds out all other vendors it would be impossible to separate it by vendor you would have so many sub threads or forums it would confuse a new person or a old person like me trying to weed thru it.

 

[brad shawn]

Have to say only being on here a week. This off the bat that’s been the friendliest and most informative forum I have belonged to. I deal with a lot of politics at clubs I belong to but choose not to get Involved. So to everyone whose helpful and informative regardless of its “friendly” or more “abrasive” you guys so far are awesome keep it!

 

[HotRocks]

FYI - here is one where the posts are between the member and the vendor and multiple others. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i-recommend-avoid-blue-zoo-aquatics.601928/. Only as an example.

This is an example of a feedback from a reef squad members experience.

We don't review every single feedback thread, so if no one reported the outside comments that would be why they haven't been removed.

Is that what you are talking about?

 

[Michael Gilbreath]

be back got to go turn my ribs on BBQ

 

[MnFish1]

This is an example of a feedback from a reef squad members experience.

We don't review every single feedback thread, so if no one reported the outside comments that would be why they haven't been removed.

Is that what you are talking about?

I mean - again - this is just to clarify the procedure - not say someone 'missed something'. This is a post negative feedback - between a vendor and a customer. in which the customer was posting email, etc from the vendor about a specific complaint. I thought it was standard that if a thread like that was allowed only to be between the customer and the vendor. I did not realize that the only time that happens is if someone complains - but I might be misunderstanding. (ie there are multiple outside posts from others except the customer and vendor)

 

[road_runner]

Up front I will say - I can be abrasive, opinionated and sometimes harsh. However, I can also be honest, upfront, scientific and friendly. Second - I really like this site - for the information and community feeling.

Recently - I read a disturbing couple of threads concerning people leaving R2R. The names and dates etc are not important. I was not sure the appropriate place to put this post - or even whether I should post it at all - but here goes. (What Im posting is not a complaint - its a couple suggestions to help the community)

IMHO - a site only works in a 'friendly' manner (as this site is suggested to be) when there is openness and consistency. While I understand the need for moderators - and policies - IMHO - the policies need to be enforced consistently.

1. Negative posts about vendors are moved from their forum to the 'vendor feedback forum'. (which until recently I didnt know existed) - Positive posts are left in the vendors forum. This isnt consistent. (And it is not in any policy I have read).
2. Is there a place on the site where its explained (again apologies if I have missed it) the hierarchy of the staff, moderators, reef squad, etc. and how one attains those positions? I recently read that the 'reef squad' is held to a higher standard - what is that standard?
3. I have seen posts that were down-right rude and/or insulting that are left for everyone to see - yet I - when I've been perceived (admittedly) abrasive - have been privately warned that 'many people here don't like you'. Is that a friendly site? I would much prefer being called out by a moderator for my behavior in public as compared to a private warning. And - I would much prefer seeing others called out for their posts as well (as compared to deleting threads, etc). Thats just an opinion.
4. Friends (married couples, parents/children etc) can disagree without being 'unfriendly'. What prompted this post was several threads where it seemed as if staff were telling users 'dont say that - this is a friendly site' - when it was merely constructive criticism - and not 'unfriendly'. Its like any disagreement (whether warranted or not) is unfriendly. To me that makes a less friendly not a more friendly site.

The comments above are not related to any specific incident - but several - and they seem to be increasing - not decreasing - I myself - who loves the site in general have considered quitting entirely a couple months ago. Maybe this should be in the 'suggestion forum' or deleted - IDK - but to @revhtree I hope you consider what I'm saying in the spirit in which I'm saying it - not as criticism - but to help. To the rest that have to read my ramblings - I apologize.

I never took you as rude or abrasive.. you have strong opinions and do not shy away from a debate which is not wrong or bad..I on one hand enjoy discussing with you often...

Do not apologize or anything man...

The problem sometimes is in what is defined ad negative.
At the end of the day if the forum become biased or too censored people will leave it. So there should be a balance and unbiased treatment between users and vendors alike..

 

[Billldg]

Seriously people, this is ridiculous. Do we have to pay or contribute financially in ANY way to read and use the information in this forum, NO!!! We as a nation have become so spoiled that we always think we should have it our way or the highway. We have the privilege of being allowed access to this forum to gain knowledge and information for the purpose of having a successful reef. I have recently seen threads complaining about the reef squad and threads complaining about the mods, DO YOU THINK THEY GET PAID TO HELP US OR POLICE THIS THREAD. It clearly is a thankless job that they take on because they love the hobby and love to help other reefers become successful. Is this forum perfect, no, but is it the best one out there, yes. I have seen threads pop up that have brought a few concerns to myself. Will it keep me from using this great forum, no, will I stick around and try to help this forum become the best forum of its type ever, yes. We can all complain and moan about what is wrong, blah, blah, blah, or we can try and help this forum become better constructively. Every reefer out there that hasn't been in this hobby for a few years ask yourself, where would you be in this hobby if not for this forum and the reef squad and mods that help maintain it. Myself, I would have already been out.

 

[road_runner]

Seriously people, this is ridiculous. Do we have to pay or contribute financially in ANY way to read and use the information in this forum, NO!!! We as a nation have become so spoiled that we always think we should have it our way or the highway. We have the privilege of being allowed access to this forum to gain knowledge and information for the purpose of having a successful reef. I have recently seen threads complaining about the reef squad and threads complaining about the mods, DO YOU THINK THEY GET PAID TO HELP US OR POLICE THIS THREAD. It clearly is a thankless job that they take on because they love the hobby and love to help other reefers become successful. Is this forum perfect, no, but is it the best one out there, yes. I have seen threads pop up that have brought a few concerns to myself. Will it keep me from using this great forum, no, will I stick around and try to help this forum become the best forum of its type ever, yes. We can all complain and moan about what is wrong, blah, blah, blah, or we can try and help this forum become better constructively. Every reefer out there that hasn't been in this hobby for a few years ask yourself, where would you be in this hobby if not for this forum and the reef squad and mods that help maintain it. Myself, I would have already been out.

Wow...I would like to know if this post represent the official stand of the forum. Or it's your personal openion..

 

[Billldg]

No, just mine I guess.

No I do not work, or even know anyone on this forum personally.