Forum Politics

[Billldg]

K., if that is what the point of this thread was, then my bad, I'm guilty of only being able to read a few pages before I go to the end, LOL!!!

 

[TheHarold]

Ask not what R2R can do for you, but rather what YOU can do for R2R!

 

[MnFish1]

K., if that is what the point of this thread was, then my bad, I'm guilty of only being able to read a few pages before I go to the end, LOL!!!

Actually - it was about a specific 'issue' or 'perception' that several people have discussed that 'something has changed in the site' - and perhaps how to 'improve' that.

 

[bigcheese]

Boy these mods and ReefSquad members are earning their pay checks today.....Checks in the mail right

Literally, well, at least from me anyway. Taking into account the explosive growth of this community, I wouldn't characterize any part of R2R as having "gotten worse".. just having the same growing pains I see in every corporation under expansion (and I've worked with a lot).

At the expense of wading into the fray, I can say that since I started lurking here ~18 months ago, I've seen a fair share of great content, some bad advice, well-measured responses to emotional topics and some hot takes that I'm sure (or at least hope) the responders wish they had a redo button on. To me, it's all good... but I have extraordinarily thick skin, prefer blunt honesty to a passive voice, and possess the wisdom to know when a thread is descending into the abyss so I can ignore it, even before mods have locked it... the same advice I give to my children (to walk away and ignore it before an adult has to get involved).

I've absolutely loved seeing the differences of opinion and polar opposites in philosophy succeeding to produce gorgeous results. Proof that no one method is an absolute blueprint for success, and even those who are "punctuation challenged" have some great points that make a ton of sense when taken in context. I can't say I've seen any "clique-y-ness" other than between locals looking to grab a beer and swap frags or a few people that share the same philosophy divergent from the 'norm' (and they are usually open to constructive criticism or at the very least, will engage in a thoughtful discourse about "why"). I take what evidence I can from these healthy exchanges and try and capture some of that lightning in a bottle (or tank) to apply to my situation; no need to start a flamewar over a disagreement. I choose not to meddle in the affairs of wizards, yet still feel that when I have something useful and experiential to contribute, I have a voice.

As far as "tone" of a thread, there is no such thing as "tone" in a forum post. You are judged solely by what's in black or white. Since something like 70% of our communication skills are based in non-verbal cues, we need to do the best we can with that remaining 30%. I too have been accused of being sometimes a little too curt, snarky, or just plain insensitive... I chalk it up to being waaay too crusty and spending too much time in the Army culture. But I learned to do better. So I posit this piece of advice:

• If you're under 30, understand not everyone's lives revolve around short messages on their phones. There may be a delay, which is fine, especially when coming up with a well-thought-out response. Context matters, as does making a well-formed thought, theory or point. This is a public forum, not twitter. There's no 140-character limit, and R2R has a pretty good search function. If you can't find a thread addressing this before, and asking for help, please put as much relevant info as you can into your posts so we can avoid back-and-forth one-liners ad infinitum.
  
• If you're in your 30s-50s, sarcasm doesn't translate -at all- unless you insert the correct emoji . There are lots of forum members that lack sarcasm detectors and think you're just being a jerk, rather than practicing the highest form of wit. A 'lol' at the end of something super inflammatory and mean doesn't change what was written and make it better, it just looks like gloating.
  
• If you're 60+, well, bless you. Chances are you've been there, done that, and don't need to take any advice from these whipper snappers . Things have changed, though, both in the hobby and how we all communicate. Please don't shoot the messenger, we're all just trying to help... even if it doesn't seem like it.
• This is an international community. I've had the fortune of spending time in a lot of different cultures, but not everyone has. Americans are just... different. People in other cultures don't express themselves the same, sometimes coming off as rude or unintelligent, when nothing could be further from the truth. They may be using Google Translate to get what you're saying, and it's historically bad at understanding idioms (go ahead, try it). Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, so when in doubt, ask for clarification in plain language.

And as for the R2R staff, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Thank you all (and you all need your own @Team Reef tag). For all the site troubles and mod requests, you have been admirably weathering a growing storm and the vast majority appreciate your (unpaid) work. I have faith in @revhtree, both in addressing the concerns in this thread as well as keeping this the premiere destination on the Interwebs for reefers of all shapes and sizes- enough faith, in fact, to put my money where my big mouth is with a 2-year subscription. Anyone else with me?

Oh and @MnFish1 ... I know of a different vendor feedback method that might work well, where feedback is posted blind to the community and the vendor can respond privately to clear up any concerns before it goes public or choose to publish it as-is, but metrics on the vendor's profile show positive vs. negative vs. neutral feedback and controlled by R2R, regardless of whether the vendor publishes it or not. Whaddya think? Does that cover the bases without allowing abuse and piling on?

 

[MnFish1]

Literally, well, at least from me anyway. Taking into account the explosive growth of this community, I wouldn't characterize any part of R2R as having "gotten worse".. just having the same growing pains I see in every corporation under expansion (and I've worked with a lot).

At the expense of wading into the fray, I can say that since I started lurking here ~18 months ago, I've seen a fair share of great content, some bad advice, well-measured responses to emotional topics and some hot takes that I'm sure (or at least hope) the responders wish they had a redo button on. To me, it's all good... but I have extraordinarily thick skin, prefer blunt honestly to a passive voice, and possess the wisdom to know when a thread is descending into the abyss so I can ignore it, even before mods have locked it... the same advice I give to my children (to walk away and ignore it before an adult has to get involved).

I've absolutely loved seeing the differences of opinion and polar opposites in philosophy succeeding to produce gorgeous results. Proof that no one method is an absolute blueprint for success, and even those who are "punctuation challenged" have some great points that make a ton of sense when taken in context. I can't say I've seen any "clique-y-ness" other than between locals looking to grab a beer and swap frags or a few people that share the same philosophy divergent from the 'norm' (and they are usually open to constructive criticism or at the very least, will engage in a thoughtful discourse about "why"). I take what evidence I can from these healthy exchanges and try and capture some of that lightning in a bottle (or tank) to apply to my situation; no need to start a flamewar over a disagreement. I choose not to meddle in the affairs of wizards, yet still feel that when I have something useful and experiential to contribute, I have a voice.

As far as "tone" of a thread, there is no such thing as "tone" in a forum post. You are judged solely by what's in black or white. Since something like 70% of our communication skills are based in non-verbal cues, we need to do the best we can with that remaining 30%. I too have been accused of being sometimes a little too curt, snarky, or just plain insensitive... I chalk it up to being waaay too crusty and spending too much time in the Army culture. But I learned to do better. So I posit this piece of advice:

• If you're under 30, understand not everyone's lives revolves around short messages on their phones. There may be a delay, which is fine, especially when coming up with a well-thought-out response. Context matters, as does making a well-formed thought, theory or point. This is a public forum, not twitter. There's no 140-character limit, and R2R has a pretty good search function. If you can't find a thread addressing this before, and asking for help, please put as much relevant info as you can into your posts so we can avoid back-and-forth one-liners ad infinitum.
  
• If you're in your 30s-50s, sarcasm doesn't translate -at all- unless you insert the correct emoji . There are lots of forum members that lack sarcasm detectors and think you're just being a jerk, rather that practicing the highest form of wit. A 'lol' at the end of something super inflammatory and mean doesn't change what was written and make it better, it just looks like gloating.
  
• If you're 60+, well, bless you. Chances are you've been there, done that, and don't need to take any advice from these whipper snappers . Things have changed, though, both in the hobby and how we all communicate. Please don't shoot the messenger, we're all just trying to help... even if it doesn't seem like it.
• This is an international community. I've had the fortune of spending time in a lot of different cultures, but not everyone has. Americans are just... different. People in other cultures don't express themselves the same, sometimes coming off as rude or unintelligent, when nothing could be further from the truth. They may be using Google Translate to get what you're saying, and it's historically bad at understanding idioms (go ahead, try it). Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, so when in doubt, ask for clarification in plain language.

And as for the R2R staff, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Thank you all (and you all need your own @Team Reef tag). For all the site troubles and mod requests, you have been admirably weathering a growing storm and the vast majority appreciate your (unpaid) work. I have faith in @revhtree, both in addressing the concerns in this thread as well as keeping this the premiere destination on the Interwebs for reefers of all shapes and sizes- enough faith, in fact, to put my money where my big mouth is with a 2-year subscription. Anyone else with me?

Oh and @MnFish1 ... I know of a different vendor feedback method that might work well, where feedback is posted blind to the community and the vendor can respond privately to clear up any concerns before it goes public or choose to publish it as-is, but metrics on the vendor's profile show positive vs. negative vs. neutral feedback and controlled by R2R, regardless of whether the vendor publishes it or not. Whaddya think? Does that cover the bases without allowing abuse and piling on?

Great post - and great idea.

 

[PYRU]

Literally, well, at least from me anyway. Taking into account the explosive growth of this community, I wouldn't characterize any part of R2R as having "gotten worse".. just having the same growing pains I see in every corporation under expansion (and I've worked with a lot).

At the expense of wading into the fray, I can say that since I started lurking here ~18 months ago, I've seen a fair share of great content, some bad advice, well-measured responses to emotional topics and some hot takes that I'm sure (or at least hope) the responders wish they had a redo button on. To me, it's all good... but I have extraordinarily thick skin, prefer blunt honesty to a passive voice, and possess the wisdom to know when a thread is descending into the abyss so I can ignore it, even before mods have locked it... the same advice I give to my children (to walk away and ignore it before an adult has to get involved).

I've absolutely loved seeing the differences of opinion and polar opposites in philosophy succeeding to produce gorgeous results. Proof that no one method is an absolute blueprint for success, and even those who are "punctuation challenged" have some great points that make a ton of sense when taken in context. I can't say I've seen any "clique-y-ness" other than between locals looking to grab a beer and swap frags or a few people that share the same philosophy divergent from the 'norm' (and they are usually open to constructive criticism or at the very least, will engage in a thoughtful discourse about "why"). I take what evidence I can from these healthy exchanges and try and capture some of that lightning in a bottle (or tank) to apply to my situation; no need to start a flamewar over a disagreement. I choose not to meddle in the affairs of wizards, yet still feel that when I have something useful and experiential to contribute, I have a voice.

As far as "tone" of a thread, there is no such thing as "tone" in a forum post. You are judged solely by what's in black or white. Since something like 70% of our communication skills are based in non-verbal cues, we need to do the best we can with that remaining 30%. I too have been accused of being sometimes a little too curt, snarky, or just plain insensitive... I chalk it up to being waaay too crusty and spending too much time in the Army culture. But I learned to do better. So I posit this piece of advice:

• If you're under 30, understand not everyone's lives revolve around short messages on their phones. There may be a delay, which is fine, especially when coming up with a well-thought-out response. Context matters, as does making a well-formed thought, theory or point. This is a public forum, not twitter. There's no 140-character limit, and R2R has a pretty good search function. If you can't find a thread addressing this before, and asking for help, please put as much relevant info as you can into your posts so we can avoid back-and-forth one-liners ad infinitum.
  
• If you're in your 30s-50s, sarcasm doesn't translate -at all- unless you insert the correct emoji . There are lots of forum members that lack sarcasm detectors and think you're just being a jerk, rather that practicing the highest form of wit. A 'lol' at the end of something super inflammatory and mean doesn't change what was written and make it better, it just looks like gloating.
  
• If you're 60+, well, bless you. Chances are you've been there, done that, and don't need to take any advice from these whipper snappers . Things have changed, though, both in the hobby and how we all communicate. Please don't shoot the messenger, we're all just trying to help... even if it doesn't seem like it.
• This is an international community. I've had the fortune of spending time in a lot of different cultures, but not everyone has. Americans are just... different. People in other cultures don't express themselves the same, sometimes coming off as rude or unintelligent, when nothing could be further from the truth. They may be using Google Translate to get what you're saying, and it's historically bad at understanding idioms (go ahead, try it). Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, so when in doubt, ask for clarification in plain language.

And as for the R2R staff, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Thank you all (and you all need your own @Team Reef tag). For all the site troubles and mod requests, you have been admirably weathering a growing storm and the vast majority appreciate your (unpaid) work. I have faith in @revhtree, both in addressing the concerns in this thread as well as keeping this the premiere destination on the Interwebs for reefers of all shapes and sizes- enough faith, in fact, to put my money where my big mouth is with a 2-year subscription. Anyone else with me?

Oh and @MnFish1 ... I know of a different vendor feedback method that might work well, where feedback is posted blind to the community and the vendor can respond privately to clear up any concerns before it goes public or choose to publish it as-is, but metrics on the vendor's profile show positive vs. negative vs. neutral feedback and controlled by R2R, regardless of whether the vendor publishes it or not. Whaddya think? Does that cover the bases without allowing abuse and piling on?

I'm fairly new here but as a newcomer this is all I see as well.

I ask a question and i get several knowledgeable answers. I can't ask for much more.

 

[Lasse]

Another tip

A friend of mine run a forum here in Sweden. After a while he became quite tired of editing negative or positive posts about vendors. He decided to allow criticism (positive or negative) of vendors - however, there was a catch. If a certain rule was not followed - he would remove that post or thread instantly. Even angry and rude feedback was allowed with this small catch. What was the magic catch? It was easy – if you wanted to make a negative or positive feedback of a vendor – the post or thread must show your real identity and contact information openly. You could not hide yourself behind anonymity. Let me put it this way – after that change of rules – there was very few negative feedback threads or posts

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lissa1987]

Very similar to preface saying something offensive with "I don't mean to offend, but...".

In the south we start with, “well bless your heart,”

 

[Antics]

Another tip

A friend of mine run a forum here in Sweden. After a while he became quite tired of editing negative or positive posts about vendors. He decided to allow criticism (positive or negative) of vendors - however, there was a catch. If a certain rule was not followed - he would remove that post or thread instantly. Even angry and rude feedback was allowed with this small catch. What was the magic catch? It was easy – if you wanted to make a negative or positive feedback of a vendor – the post or thread must show your real identity and contact information openly. You could not hide yourself behind anonymity. Let me put it this way – after that change of rules – there was very few of this type of threads or posts

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,

That seems like it's a little unfair to the individual if the company remains anonymous behind the corporation. Positive or negative feedback should be allowed openly in my opinion. As long as it's constructive and free of profanity or vulgar etc.

 

[Lasse]

Lasse,

That seems like it's a little unfair to the individual if the company remains anonymous behind the corporation. Positive or negative feedback should be allowed openly in my opinion. As long as it's constructive and free of profanity or vulgar etc.

The problem is that you never know if it is a real persons real problem with a vendor, another vendor, the same vendor (I assume it is positive feedback in that case ) or someone that will just try to denigrate a competitor. I´m also for free positive or negative feedback but if I can´t deliver that with my real identity - and stand for it - I would be quiet. A named comapany is never anonymous and as a company it will always affected by the feedback in one or another way. For me - it is important to show who is the sender of a message.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[road_runner]

Has anyone started a thread asking members how to better this forum, whether it be political or not?

Or is this type of thread pointless?

To me this post intention is this exactly..how to make the forum better.

 

[road_runner]

Another tip

A friend of mine run a forum here in Sweden. After a while he became quite tired of editing negative or positive posts about vendors. He decided to allow criticism (positive or negative) of vendors - however, there was a catch. If a certain rule was not followed - he would remove that post or thread instantly. Even angry and rude feedback was allowed with this small catch. What was the magic catch? It was easy – if you wanted to make a negative or positive feedback of a vendor – the post or thread must show your real identity and contact information openly. You could not hide yourself behind anonymity. Let me put it this way – after that change of rules – there was very few negative feedback threads or posts

Sincerely Lasse

problem I have seen some times is how tight some vendors are with trying to control narratives. Some vendors are more than others. Complaining and bashing customers reviews and feedback are one of these tactics to do so...
As users we should be afraid and I will say again if one forum censored for sake of one vendor over other, people will leave that forum. I seen R2R are trying their best not to fall in this trap and be in hands of vendors which is good. At the end of the day forums grow with users not with vendors.
Think about Amazon...Amazon do not filter reviews...good or bad. At the end of the day the good prevail over the bad..

So far R2R been amazing and like a second home to me...the forum will grow and get over issues..I am sure of it.

 

[chefjpaul]

Another tip

A friend of mine run a forum here in Sweden. After a while he became quite tired of editing negative or positive posts about vendors. He decided to allow criticism (positive or negative) of vendors - however, there was a catch. If a certain rule was not followed - he would remove that post or thread instantly. Even angry and rude feedback was allowed with this small catch. What was the magic catch? It was easy – if you wanted to make a negative or positive feedback of a vendor – the post or thread must show your real identity and contact information openly. You could not hide yourself behind anonymity. Let me put it this way – after that change of rules – there was very few negative feedback threads or posts

Sincerely Lasse

I don't leave feedback. I either give them my money or not.

The ones I do support, I will speak in good regards, the ones I don't.... waste of time usually.

 

[road_runner]

The problem is that you never know if it is a real persons real problem with a vendor, another vendor, the same vendor (I assume it is positive feedback in that case ) or someone that will just try to denigrate a competitor. I´m also for free positive or negative feedback but if I can´t deliver that with my real identity - and stand for it - I would be quiet. A named comapany is never anonymous and as a company it will always affected by the feedback in one or another way. For me - it is important to show who is the sender of a message.

Sincerely Lasse

It should not matter thu..the number of real customers will be more than the number of fake ones when it come to a product or vendor.
There is no such thing ad biased customer feedback.. if it's a customer. Then he/she have the right to give feedback regardless of how good or bad...
My openion..

 

[ScottR]

I’m just going to sum up this thread for anyone who doesn’t have time to read all the posts:

Put a bunch of humans in a room and...

 

[Lasse]

It is my thoughts too - you have the right to give feedback - both good and bad. But you should also be able to stand for it and not hide beyond an avatar. IMO

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TheHarold]

It is my thoughts too - you have the right to give feedback - both good and bad. But you should also be able to stand for it and not hide beyond an avatar. IMO

Sincerely Lasse

Does that mean that you really have an awesome beard?

 

[Lasse]

Thats´s me - in person But - I have to admit it's the best photo of me ever

But in this month - this could be good too ​

​

Or this

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

I’m just going to sum up this thread for anyone who doesn’t have time to read all the posts:

Put a bunch of humans in a room and...

Well - there a number of kind of funny replies I could think of - but this is a family friendly site. In all honesty - I think everyone has been civil and friendly

 

[ScottR]

Well - there a number of kind of funny replies I could think of - but this is a family friendly site. In all honesty - I think everyone has been civil and friendly

I think this thread also broke a record for average number of words per post. Some really long ones here.