Fox Face not eating

[Brew12]

Well, we just got home. Fox has been in DT for about 24 hours. I'm following your instructions and not panicking....and maybe I'm being paranoid. After 3 months in QT, with ZERO signs of ick. 20 days in copper treatment maintained at 2.0 the entire time and checked daily, I feel like I see one white spot on his left fin. Of course this has me sick to my stomach. The 2 clowns are in the DT with no signs of anything. I feel like I see one raised spot in his skin, but he has to be at JUST the right angle and it isn't white from what I can tell (he's still a little skiddish from the move). Is this a "wait and see how he is tomorrow" moment or a "get him back out of there asap" moment? Sigh...I hope I'm overreacting. I just don't even see how this could be possible.

I'm hoping for the best right along with you! I know I don't trust any QT but my own. And clowns have a very thick mucus coating so they tend to be fairly resistant to ich but can be carriers.
I sure hope that isn't the case after everything you have been through!

 

[melypr1985]

Well, we just got home. Fox has been in DT for about 24 hours. I'm following your instructions and not panicking....and maybe I'm being paranoid. After 3 months in QT, with ZERO signs of ick. 20 days in copper treatment maintained at 2.0 the entire time and checked daily, I feel like I see one white spot on his left fin. Of course this has me sick to my stomach. The 2 clowns are in the DT with no signs of anything. I feel like I see one raised spot in his skin, but he has to be at JUST the right angle and it isn't white from what I can tell (he's still a little skiddish from the move). Is this a "wait and see how he is tomorrow" moment or a "get him back out of there asap" moment? Sigh...I hope I'm overreacting. I just don't even see how this could be possible.

Well, I'd say get as good a picture as you can- or a video and we can help you determine what it might be. If you can't get a good one, then we will wait and see what happens. If more pop up then we should take a closer look. If it stays there and gets bigger, then it's probably lymph and nothing to worry about. If it stays the same size and drops off after a few days, then we need to take a closer look at what it could be. Does that make sense? I hope so.. You're doing a good job not panicking.

 

[Mini Coop]

It's a "wait and see".

After going fallow for 76 days almost a year ago - and upon finally reintroducing fish to the DT, my heart would skip a beat every time I spotted a white dot on one of my fish. Microbubbles? Sand? ICH?!

To date, the dread disease has not reared its ugly heads in my DT - and I don't get the same adrenaline rush when there's a grain of sand stuck to my wrasse's head just after he wakes up . . .

~Bruce

Well, I'm glad to know that this would be a normal reaction. My husband doesn't see the spot. So we will wait and see.

 

[Mini Coop]

Well, I'd say get as good a picture as you can- or a video and we can help you determine what it might be. If you can't get a good one, then we will wait and see what happens. If more pop up then we should take a closer look. If it stays there and gets bigger, then it's probably lymph and nothing to worry about. If it stays the same size and drops off after a few days, then we need to take a closer look at what it could be. Does that make sense? I hope so.. You're doing a good job not panicking.

I will try to get one tomorrow. He's hiding now. My husband says he doesn't see it. Lol. He's been looking for me. We will wait and see. Trying to settle my adrenaline so that I can sleep. Thank you.

 

[Mini Coop]

T

I'm hoping for the best right along with you! I know I don't trust any QT but my own. And clowns have a very thick mucus coating so they tend to be fairly resistant to ich but can be carriers.
I sure hope that isn't the case after everything you have been through!

Thanks for the support! Since I am new, and he has been doing tanks FOREVER, I certainly trust him more than myself! I stopped and saw them every couple of days (he lives around the corner). And I did the prazipro treatments. He had a new 10 gallon tank that had just cycled and he was going to use it for QT anyway. He QT'd my 2 clowns and his 2 new ones that we got from a private breeder. Hopefully it is nothing. You guys are awesome. I'll update tomorrow.

 

[Mini Coop]

Ok - hopefully this works!! I got a little video of him. Let me know your thoughts.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0Z1ZmsN5KJ3ZERKYVM3QnhTaFk

 

[melypr1985]

Ok - hopefully this works!! I got a little video of him. Let me know your thoughts.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0Z1ZmsN5KJ3ZERKYVM3QnhTaFk

I don't see anything to worry about. He's a little stressed out and breathing fast, but other than that I wouldn't worry. Give him some time to chill out.... a day or two.

 

[Humblefish]

I don't see anything to worry about. He's a little stressed out and breathing fast, but other than that I wouldn't worry. Give him some time to chill out.... a day or two.

+1 A foxface has an incredibly thick mucous coat. So it is not unusual to see sand and other debris stuck to the surface of their skin.

 

[Mini Coop]

Ok - going to keep watching for a couple days, but looking like all is good with Nick (foxface). I have had the others in copper for 22 days now (sailfin and purple firefish). I am thinking according to @Humblefish I should leave them in the copper for another 8 days, at the 2.0 level, slowly decrease copper level with water changes, and monitor for 2 weeks before transferring to DT. Correct? Or if fox is ok, do I go ahead and decrease copper, monitor for a couple of days, and transfer?

 

[Brew12]

Ok - going to keep watching for a couple days, but looking like all is good with Nick (foxface). I have had the others in copper for 22 days now (sailfin and purple firefish). I am thinking according to @Humblefish I should leave them in the copper for another 8 days, at the 2.0 level, slowly decrease copper level with water changes, and monitor for 2 weeks before transferring to DT. Correct? Or if fox is ok, do I go ahead and decrease copper, monitor for a couple of days, and transfer?

You need to go another 8 days. No need to decrease copper slowly, fast is just fine. If you have copper absorbent you can use that along with water changes. The only time it is ok to cut the copper period short is if you have a clean tank to transfer them into.
You really want to wait and observe them for the 2 weeks if possible. This not only gives you a chance to watch for other symptoms but it gives them a chance to recover and gain strength after being in the copper. You already know you may have aggression issues since you saw it in your QT so you want these fish as healthy as possible before adding them to your DT.

 

[Humblefish]

You need to go another 8 days. No need to decrease copper slowly, fast is just fine. If you have copper absorbent you can use that along with water changes. The only time it is ok to cut the copper period short is if you have a clean tank to transfer them into.
You really want to wait and observe them for the 2 weeks if possible. This not only gives you a chance to watch for other symptoms but it gives them a chance to recover and gain strength after being in the copper. You already know you may have aggression issues since you saw it in your QT so you want these fish as healthy as possible before adding them to your DT.

+1

 

[Mini Coop]

You need to go another 8 days. No need to decrease copper slowly, fast is just fine. If you have copper absorbent you can use that along with water changes. The only time it is ok to cut the copper period short is if you have a clean tank to transfer them into.
You really want to wait and observe them for the 2 weeks if possible. This not only gives you a chance to watch for other symptoms but it gives them a chance to recover and gain strength after being in the copper. You already know you may have aggression issues since you saw it in your QT so you want these fish as healthy as possible before adding them to your DT.

Great! I did a water change in their tank this morning - I will go ahead and up the copper level back to 2.0, leave them in for 8 days, decrease the copper and monitor for 2 weeks.
Foxface is doing great. I think the white spot I saw was just a part of his fin, but will be slow and careful with the last 2. Thank you so much.

I now have a RO 152-s I am trying to calibrate and just ordered my Tunze 2155 ATO system with my $$ I got for Christmas, so the tank should be in just about perfect condition by the time I get them back in

One other question - can anything skew Nitrate readings? I just did a 30% water change yesterday, and nitrates read around 10 this morning. I am using aquaforest live bacteria in combo with seachem's stability when I do water changes and such. Just got the PS in on Monday, so I would think they would be going down. Not up. My elegant coral and my acans aren't looking particularly happy today, which also gives me a clue the nitrates are a little high.

 

[Brew12]

One other question - can anything skew Nitrate readings? I just did a 30% water change yesterday, and nitrates read around 10 this morning. I am using aquaforest live bacteria in combo with seachem's stability when I do water changes and such. Just got the PS in on Monday, so I would think they would be going down. Not up. My elegant coral and my acans aren't looking particularly happy today, which also gives me a clue the nitrates are a little hig

I am going to recommend you stop adding Seachem's Stability. These products are great for establishing a new tank with nitrifying bacteria. Long term I believe they can cause problems. Over time many different strains of nitrifying bacteria will naturally be exposed to your tank. The ones that are best suited for your aquarium will thrive and out compete the less well suited bacteria. By continuously introducing these bottled bacteria products you can prevent this from happening. Stability recommends you add it daily for a week if I recall correctly, so you should be done with it by now.
I'm guessing the Aquaforest bacteria is Pro Bio S? Using this without a skimmer won't accomplish much. You probably don't have enough corals that will consume the biomass it creates and haven't had a skimmer running. Eventually, the biomass that was formed by the bacteria in Pro Bio S will break back down into PO4 and NO3 since nothing is removing it. This product will do more once you get your skimmer dialed in.

I doubt high nitrates are impacting your Acans or your Elegance corals. I'm pretty sure both of these types of coral do well in "dirty" water and benefit from direct feeding of meaty foods. Someone more experienced with these corals might be able to confirm this.

 

[Humblefish]

Great! I did a water change in their tank this morning - I will go ahead and up the copper level back to 2.0, leave them in for 8 days, decrease the copper and monitor for 2 weeks.

What did the copper level drop to after the water change? Coppersafe must be maintained between 1.5 - 2.0 ppm for the entire 30 days in order to be effective. If it dips below 1.5, even for a second, then all bets are off and the 30 day QT clock restarts.

Sorry if it seems like I'm being nitpicky ... but adhering to these fine little points makes all the difference when it comes to QT.

 

[Brew12]

What did the copper level drop to after the water change? Coppersafe must be maintained between 1.5 - 2.0 ppm for the entire 30 days in order to be effective. If it dips below 1.5, even for a second, then all bets are off and the 30 day QT clock restarts.

Sorry if it seems like I'm being nitpicky ... but adhering to these fine little points makes all the difference when it comes to QT.

Just to explain what the concern is. When the ich from the fish stops feeding and drops off it forms a cyst on a hard surface. The copper doesn't do anything in these 2 stages in its lifecycle. When the cyst "hatches" the copper kills the new ich before it can attach to the fish and start feeding again. If you would be unlucky enough to have a cyst hatch while copper was low it is possible for the baby ich to attach to the fish and start feeding again, where it would be safe from the copper.
This is why it is recommended to get your fresh saltwater to 2ppm prior to adding it. First, it prevents the copper level from dropping, and second, it minimizes the chance of adding too much copper.

 

[Mini Coop]

What did the copper level drop to after the water change? Coppersafe must be maintained between 1.5 - 2.0 ppm for the entire 30 days in order to be effective. If it dips below 1.5, even for a second, then all bets are off and the 30 day QT clock restarts.

Sorry if it seems like I'm being nitpicky ... but adhering to these fine little points makes all the difference when it comes to QT.

Nitpicky is how I learn . . . don't apologize. I want to learn to do things right so that I don't have problems again, and I can help others later. You did put me in a huge panic as I hadn't checked the level after the change (my 2 and 3 year old were a bit crazy this morning).
I only changed about 3-4 gallons out of their 20 gallon tank. It looks like it is 1.5 still! Not quite as dark as 2, but certainly not as light as 1.0. I went ahead and dosed just a bit more so that it will raise back up to 2. I will be good then, correct?

 

[Mini Coop]

Just to explain what the concern is. When the ich from the fish stops feeding and drops off it forms a cyst on a hard surface. The copper doesn't do anything in these 2 stages in its lifecycle. When the cyst "hatches" the copper kills the new ich before it can attach to the fish and start feeding again. If you would be unlucky enough to have a cyst hatch while copper was low it is possible for the baby ich to attach to the fish and start feeding again, where it would be safe from the copper.
This is why it is recommended to get your fresh saltwater to 2ppm prior to adding it. First, it prevents the copper level from dropping, and second, it minimizes the chance of adding too much copper.

Completely and totally makes sense! I have learned just about all there is to know about ick now, I think! HAHA. I just need to get some more buckets and things that are designated JUST for that tank so that I can make SURE never to cross-contaminate the copper equipment to my main tank at all.

 

[Brew12]

Completely and totally makes sense! I have learned just about all there is to know about ick now, I think! HAHA. I just need to get some more buckets and things that are designated JUST for that tank so that I can make SURE never to cross-contaminate the copper equipment to my main tank at all.

Great attitude to have!

I use Lowes buckets for RODI water. Used salt buckets for fresh mixed saltwater. Home Depot buckets for waste water and copper treated water. Makes it easy for me to remember which is which.

 

[Humblefish]

Nitpicky is how I learn . . . don't apologize. I want to learn to do things right so that I don't have problems again, and I can help others later. You did put me in a huge panic as I hadn't checked the level after the change (my 2 and 3 year old were a bit crazy this morning).
I only changed about 3-4 gallons out of their 20 gallon tank. It looks like it is 1.5 still! Not quite as dark as 2, but certainly not as light as 1.0. I went ahead and dosed just a bit more so that it will raise back up to 2. I will be good then, correct?

You are good.

 

[Mini Coop]

You are good.

You have no idea how relieved I am to hear those words for once . . .
And @melypr1985, @Brew12 - The white spot I saw on Nick's fin the other night is still there - in the exact place it was. I would assume that 48 hours later, if it was an ich parasite, it would have released by now, and wouldn't be visible. Is that correct? So if that is the case - I would call it one successful save and transfer so far! (Feel free to burst my bubble if need be). But I had some hair algae growing on the drain pipe, and a few patches of algae (my husband called it broccoli) growing on my one powerhead and 2 spots on the rocks - it is ALL gone! ALL of it!! He had demolished the algae! And another interesting thing I thought I would share is that in QT - the foxface stopped eating mysis (I fed flake food and nori for him and Judy (the sailfin), and mysis for the other 2 once a day - he didn't touch the shrimp). All of the sudden, back in the main tank, he goes for the mysis!! And he doesn't fight with the clowns. He lets them have their own!