Frag, mini colony, colony

[DivingTheWorld]

Where do you draw the line between a frag and colony?

Hi everyone, I have what I believe to be an interesting question. Where do you all draw the line between a coral frag and a colony? Say you wanted to post a picture of a coral, how would I know whether to call it a frag or a colony? I get that a frag is typically small and usually cut from the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Scdell]

Where do you draw the line between a frag and colony?

Hi everyone, I have what I believe to be an interesting question. Where do you all draw the line between a coral frag and a colony? Say you wanted to post a picture of a coral, how would I know whether to call it a frag or a colony? I get that a frag is typically small and usually cut from the...

www.reef2reef.com

Guess the issue is still not resolved then,

 

[stephj03]

I don't think it can be resolved if resolution means going back to the way these terms use to be used.


The hobby changed..... Why does that have to be a bad thing?

It's not like baseball size would have counted as a colony to most of the ppl I looked up to when I first got in. They were growing basketballs or orange cap....

To me this is all the same topic as the threads about tanks being too blue, frags being too expensive, frag names being silly, equipment mark ups being out of control.

The hobby evolved and is now centered around premium/luxury offerings that come in smaller packages with higher price tags.

And that's ok.

It's not my hobby, but it's most other ppl's hobby. I'm off center now and it's ok for that to be fine. If I care about frag size on something, I buy wysiwyg, otherwise I anticipate stated size being overstated.

 

[stephj03]

Honestly I don't even think most tanks are wet long enough to grow a baseball anymore before the owner has to break down or upgrade/downgrade.

2-3yrs wet seems to be about the norm from what I see. That only gives 1-2yrs of Acro growing time.

With LEDs, low nutrients and 1/2" starting frags there won't be many baseballs.

 

[Scdell]

I don't think it can be resolved if resolution means going back to the way these terms use to be used.


The hobby changed..... Why does that have to be a bad thing?

It's not like baseball size would have counted as a colony to most of the ppl I looked up to when I first got in. They were growing basketballs or orange cap....

To me this is all the same topic as the threads about tanks being too blue, frags being too expensive, frag names being silly, equipment mark ups being out of control.

The hobby evolved and is now centered around premium/luxury offerings that come in smaller packages with higher price tags.

And that's ok.

It's not my hobby, but it's most other ppl's hobby. I'm off center now and it's ok for that to be fine. If I care about frag size on something, I buy wysiwyg, otherwise I anticipate stated size being overstated.

Just because a hobby has evolved doesn't mean it's a good thing. I don't get the whole " it's not my hobby thing" It most certainly is your hobby and the majority has made it a designer hobby. We all have to deal with that. I find it totally ridiculous that people in the hobby for a long time have to deal with some of this insanity. A frag is a frag and a colony is a colony. Mini colony is something that has been invented by the designer majority and I'm sure they will come up with other stuff on the way.

 

[Scdell]

Honestly I don't even think most tanks are wet long enough to grow a baseball anymore before the owner has to break down or upgrade/downgrade.

2-3yrs wet seems to be about the norm from what I see. That only gives 1-2yrs of Acro growing time.

With LEDs, low nutrients and 1/2" starting frags there won't be many baseballs.

This statement says a lot about the state of things.

 

[X-37B]

This statement says a lot about the state of things.

My current 120 is 1.5 years.
I have already removed 3 baseball+ sized colonies to make room for others.
All were started from small frags.
Some just grow faster than others all things being equal.
In another 1.5 years my tank will be overgrown.
A frag is a frag, and a colony can be whatever you want size wise depending on the size of your tank.

 

[Scdell]

My current 120 is 1.5 years.
I have already removed 3 baseball+ sized colonies to make room for others.
All were started from small frags.
Some just grow faster than others all things being equal.
In another 1.5 years my tank will be overgrown.
A frag is a frag, and a colony can be whatever you want size wise depending on the size of your tank.

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out the whole three year thing to get baseball sized. You're right it depends on the coral.

 

[X-37B]

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out the whole three year thing to get baseball sized. You're right it depends on the coral.

Yep, I had 2 small 1" frags of the "fast growing green slimer", lol.
They were put into my tank at the 1 month mark.
They did nothing but base out for a year before deciding to go vertical while others put in much later took off almost instantly.
Month 1/now.

 

[stephj03]

I don't get the whole " it's not my hobby thing"

What I'm saying is that my hobby is different than theirs and that's ok. Nobody is stopping you or me from buying larger frags of OG pieces and growing colonies out if them.

And if I want to sprinkle in a few designer nubs that's fine too.

And unfortunately, a colony isn't a colony and a frag isn't a frag. If they were we wouldn't have found ourselves where we are.

We also have to own a little bit of the problem bc we standardized around terms that don't include a measurement. Instead we chose arbitrary terms that have no objective relationship to cm or inches.

 

[stephj03]

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out the whole three year thing to get baseball sized. You're right it depends on the coral.

You guys must be reading different threads in the SPS forum than me then. If that's the case I don't get what the problem is for you guys. I see baseball sized colonies of Digis/staghorns/slimers/bird'snest all the time. And I rarely see 1-2" pieces of these strains called mini colonies.

Last time I checked nobody is complaining about the lack of 2" slimers/bird'snest/staghorn/Digi frags on the market or how nobody grows colonies of them anymore.

Most of the threads like this are really talking about the newer hotter strains that get sold as .5" nubs off of 1.5" sources that took someone at least a year to grow from a .5" or even smaller nub.

 

[stephj03]

I actually see these terms being applied properly to many of the strains that were recently the hot coral.

SCOP
Pink Cadillac
WD

I rarely see anyone refference a 2" frag as a mini colony of these anymore.

Let other ppl have their hobby just like you get to have your hobby be whatever you want it to be.

Tolerance is a winner, it's ok for other ppl to be wrong. The hobby evolved good or bad but it also got bigger. It's plenty big for us and them.

 

[Scdell]

You guys must be reading different threads in the SPS forum than me then. If that's the case I don't get what the problem is for you guys. I see baseball sized colonies of Digis/staghorns/slimers/bird'snest all the time. And I rarely see 1-2" pieces of these strains called mini colonies.

Last time I checked nobody is complaining about the lack of 2" slimers/bird'snest/staghorn/Digi frags on the market or how nobody grows colonies of them anymore.

Most of the threads like this are really talking about the newer hotter strains that get sold as .5" nubs off of 1.5" sources that took someone at least a year to grow from a .5" or even smaller nub.

You're on a roll here aren't you? We're talking about sizes here, Not latest greatest frags!
Now of course when a new coral comes out that's a have to have coral? Yeah the nubs start rolling out. And that my friend IS the problem because it no longer is a hobby for these sellers.
It has become a cash cow. When people see the prices, they start up a new tank so they can make money and run into all kinds of problems when their tank doesn't perform for them.
So...... They have all this money invested in a tank they thought they were going to make a small fortune with and they are between a rock and a hard place. Hence the 2 year tank wet rate you mentioned.
It's perfectly fine to sell frags to offset some expenses. One needs to put some time and effort to be rewarded though. This is why I feel there should be some form of standardization between frag and colony. Sadly, it'll never happen as long as people are willing to pay big money for a nub.
It goes back to the old adage "supply and demand". Then it's not a hobby anymore.

 

[stephj03]

So then we really are talking about the latest greatest strains.....

And how it's not cool that that the hobby is different for others than us.

It's perfectly ok for reefing to be a casual, premium offering oriented experience for others. I can still have my hobby centered around long term husbandry success without them bothering me or vise versa. We can actually learn a thing or two from them just like we wish they learn from us.

And it's not that I'm on a roll or trying to be. It's just that this exact thread gets recycled at least monthly in one form or another.

Sometimes it's about lights, sometimes it's about auto water testers, and sometimes it's about coral names/prices/sizes. But they're all really about not being ok with the hobby being different for different reefer's.

There are pretty common and clear examples all over the SPS forum demonstrating that the time/work/effort/stability/skill going into making a 2" coral out of an overpriced silly named .5" nub is greater than throwing a 2" slimer on a rock and having it turn into a perfectly green baseball whether or not the tank is on point.

 

[stephj03]

I'm gonna leave this one alone now man. I feel like I've come across as much more of a dick than I intended and I'm just repeating myself now.

We disagree and that's cool. Reefing is big enough for both of us and also bug enough for those that aren't interested in growing real colonies like you and I are.

 

[JoshO]

Nub/booger - less than 3/4 inch
Mini frag - 3/4 to 1.5 inches
Real frag - 1.5 to 3 inches
Mini colony - 3 to 6 inches
Real colony - 6 to 12 inches
Impressive mature colony - anything over a foot across

This should be a globally accepted description, anything less than what it should be constitutes a refund...you wouldn't buy a pair of size 8 shoes and accept a pair of size 5s turning up, so we shouldn't be accepting pathetic excuses for frags and colonies

 

[Scdell]

Nub/booger - less than 3/4 inch
Mini frag - 3/4 to 1.5 inches
Real frag - 1.5 to 3 inches
Mini colony - 3 to 6 inches
Real colony - 6 to 12 inches
Impressive mature colony - anything over a foot across

This should be a globally accepted description, anything less than what it should be constitutes a refund...you wouldn't buy a pair of size 8 shoes and accept a pair of size 5s turning up, so we shouldn't be accepting pathetic excuses for frags and colonies

I agree totally! Great analogy!

 

[stephj03]

Nub/booger - less than 3/4 inch
Mini frag - 3/4 to 1.5 inches
Real frag - 1.5 to 3 inches
Mini colony - 3 to 6 inches
Real colony - 6 to 12 inches
Impressive mature colony - anything over a foot across

This should be a globally accepted description, anything less than what it should be constitutes a refund...you wouldn't buy a pair of size 8 shoes and accept a pair of size 5s turning up, so we shouldn't be accepting pathetic excuses for frags and colonies

That would be great!

And then we could have rant threads about how crazy frag prices have become, bc there's only $300-$500 1.5" frags of premium strains available.

And then we could have rant threads about how stupid names are bc it all comes from the ocean and none of the premium strains look any better than PC Rainbow.

And then hobbyists and vendors could make the size of premium frags smaller so that they are more accessible

And then we could have more of these threads complaining about frag sizes.....

 

[stephj03]

If this really matters that much, I would argue leading by example is in order.

You guys should assemble collections of the hottest frags, paying Collector Air Jordan prices for "real frags" (1.5"-3"), grow them to 12" colonies, and then offer collector Air Jordan frags to the market at real sizes (1.5"-3") for entry level Nike prices (less than $50).

 

[stephj03]

Or, if collector Jordans are beneath you to buy, you could alternatively lead by example by growing 12" colonies of stags, slimers and Digis, and offering $5-$10, 2" frags to the market and end up bleaching or giving most of them away when no one wants to pay for shipping and no one local hits you up.