Wild fish have huge parasite loads so exposure doesn't normally lead to acquired immunity in wild fish. However wild fish do survive until collection with these big parasite loads. During collection, shipping, holding, etc fish get immunocompromised from stress, low O2, lack of food etc and are held together in large numbers.
I would assert flukes for example are a bigger problem in aquaria v wild fish because there's less hosts so the numbers on individual hosts are higher, the fish are immunocompromised from all the time spent in less than ideal conditions then being put in a completely foreign environment with bigger parameter swings than the ocean, and there's less predators to said ectoparasites.
Also the dried v wet food debate is moot because of what I asked Randy earlier. We don't know how much oxidation reduces bioavailability of lipids. Nor do we know how bioavailable the lipids in the dry food are v fresh before oxidation. So even if dry food has the same nutrients in the chemical analysis we don't know how much the fish are actually absorbing, how useful these nutrients are to the fish. No matter what the diet of captive fish will be very restricted v the numerous species they'd be feeding on in the wild.
The study of probiotics on fish is very limited but there's evidence that lactobacillus will out compete other species in the digestive systems of salmon. But the effects of that are not well understood because further study is needed. So mabey (speculation) some day we'll all be feeding probiotic supplements to fish. Paul doesn't need to feeding fresh wild harvested food.
Just some thoughts being neutral to the above conversation and agreeing with both Randy and Paul on some points.
Just want to add to this…. Why is it never spoken, that maybe just maybe a lot of fish are ich less, fluke less, Brook less and so on possibly before getting collected?
It’s what I was going to respond to Paul in QT thread some days ago. Fact is the holding tank could be the bigger issue? Why isn’t this thing mention much? As you stated it’s a numbers problem. As
@The Ugly Phase stated, we don’t own the dang ocean!! But only a .0000001% of it in a glass cage! Tanks possibly being breeding havens with disease infestations that can possibly kill fish before any of Paul’s gut bacteria arguments can even take place to help save the fish. Let’s remember how ich works in our tanks, the disease falls off, multiplies, then reinfects. This is the cycle for the most common disease parasite. Where are these disgusting creatures flying away to if there are loads of fish stuck, once again, in glass cages??? Do we so easily forget the issues with the slave trade and how many would die because being confined to a ship shoulder to shoulder? Confined in close proximity can be and is an issues for all living creatures that can be infected with parasitic diseases. One of the LFS’s near me that gets really nice fish, also has the worse in regard to how most are super infected. I stated this a few times here, I get fish from there because I know I can handle most issues they come with, and actually get them healthy. But most people don’t know this and it’s why we see the Medic threads loaded with issues.
Yes research is the best thing, but many don’t understand this. And in the end need help to get the fish healthy before it dies if whatever it has. Or they don’t have access to great selection of fish from places that have quality healthy fish. Is it wrong to help them clear up disease infested pets?
The issue is collections methods/storing if you were to ask me. Let me ask another question. In regard to the sunfish. The Molamola comes to the surface to sunbathe, not to have birds pick at it necessarily for parasites. Sunbathing can also take care of parasites, along side using the sun to warm up! It’s funny because with the lights we have we barely touch any UV spectrum that can do that in our tanks. UVA gets down to about 200m, UVB the real disease killer gets down to a few meters under the surface. Well reefs are not that deep, so is ich, velvet, brook, flukes going to survive much in a vast amount of water along with UV disrupting its multiplying ability? Can they find the right fish to multiply to the level it kills it? I would be hard pressed to say no. The numbers of marine fish killing parasite a fish encounters in the ocean would be far less than that of fish in a glass cage, where breeding ground and constant attacking is imminent.
I’m going to respond and say H**L no! How would these parasite be able to with all odds stacked against them in the ocean? They are the prey at this point haha! The math is simple does not add up! Period!
So we then get these fish out of collection centers, that are 9 times out of 10, filled with all types of fish in holding containers, no large oceans waters, no sun with its UV parasite sterilizing ability, no food, stress and all these factors that in the end claims the lives of many fish live sadly, and expect them not to be infected and in need of QT. I’m not old enough in the game to talk much about past years and how fish were collected. But not one on this forum can say we have healthy collection methods because everyone wants a tang because they saw some video, or a wrasse because I saw the colors of one on someone’s social media account. The videos I have seen from some collection centers out of the pacific is sad! And modern intended sure does not help with the need to get things out as fast as possible, and as many.
Sadly it’s the reason and conclusion that I tell myself now as to why we see so much diseases! I think Jay from here stated that it has been getting worse compared to previous years. Why is that not talked about this in full? In the past not everyone would jump like a school girl at Christmas gift opening, to get into salt water! Back in 2005 one of my younger brothers got all his stuff and gave up when he saw what it takes. BUT now……? Go to any LFS because they’ll sell you a system that is turn key outside of cycling and they might when throw in some parasite infected fish for free!!! I literally watch such things take place at the LFS’s near me!
So is it good to possibly give fish only dry pellets? I say feed fish a mixture that they are willing to scarf down and they will be A Okay!
I QT’ed all 23 of my fish. Tangs, angel large and dwarfs, wrasses, clowns, and all are healthy since I put them in my 300 about the second week of April if I’m recalling correctly. And talking about tank aggression with some. What happened not long ago would make my powders burst into ich bombs. My medium purple last week decided to wreck havoc on my same size yellow. Scuffed him up pretty dang bad! With a whole patch of missing scales . Decided to not feel one day and light feeding the next day. All hello broke lose in the tank! They were getting ready to eat each other. Put food back on the menu as I normally do but way more spaced through the days and the clam hit them like you wouldn’t believe. Didn’t think two day of light feed and no feed would bring out the devil in them! But it did! Even my cleaner wrasse were trying to kill each other! Lesson leaned don’t go not feeding! Less but more times a day. The only reason I did this, is my fish are too fat!!!!
Either way I feed pellets with the lowest amount of fillers, frozen, and two three times a week black worms. Fillers is why stay way from tdo. Oh and add lots of nori. My fish turd with splatters most of the time to semi hard. No hard Lincoln logs, or stringy white. This tells me my mix of food types I listed above works and it’s keeping them healthy. The yellow is recovering quite well almost healed up completely. Lesson learned. Feed the fish!!! Especially if there are angry tangs! Haha
My two cents I guess.
Cheers-
