Going crazy with PO4 levels

[LMSquire]

I just don’t get it. Here’s the basics:

IM 240 mixed reef, about 15 fish from tangs to gobies.

Levels attached via apex screenshot.

No matter what I do I cannot seem to get my po4 down naturally.

Tried a fuge, and although my tank can seem to grow sps just fine(ish) it can’t seem to keep chaeto or caulerpa living, despite light and flow changes adjusted in the fuge.

I’ve fed less. I now rinse all my frozen food. Nothing changes.

All of my rock is Bali live rock, not Carib sea or another known for sometimes harboring po4.

I was taught early on not to chase numbers, but now I’m at my wits end, as now I’ve lost an entire torch colony almost 40 heads, multiple heads of hammers, and my favorite GORGEOUS lobo, not to mention a huge duncan colony that only has about 10 of the 50 heads left. I’m losing my favorite corals guys.

NOW- I will say this. I’ve been absolute trash at doing water changes for several months, which I am back on top of at 25% every two weeks.

However as it pertains to this problem, my understanding is that wc doesn’t really export po4 and if it does it is a band aid.

What do I do?? I love my animals and seeing my corals that I am responsible for dying sucks.

 

[JTP424]

I don't see that as a HUGE Phosphate, but I understand the concern.
BUT you can try GFO...

 

[LMSquire]

I don't see that as a HUGE Phosphate, but I understand the concern.
BUT you can try GFO...

It’s down from like .23 using phos-e

I’m considering gfo but want to do it naturally if possible. I just don’t understand in what world I can keep the healthiest Tahitian maxima clam you’ve ever seen and not be able to grow caulerpa or chaeto.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I'm very skeptical that you lost all those corals due to phosphate being at .2. I've seen some tanks with higher phosphate.

I don't think you should feed less because that could turn into aggression and stress issue's if the fish are hungry. Fish need to eat regardless of what our tests show.

You are right that water changes aren't very effective. Phosphate can be stored in the rocks, so the rocks can leach phosphate after every water change so its a losing battle.

IMO gfo or lanthenum is the correct and easiest and fastest way to solve this issue. Just my 2 cents good luck

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would not do anything about that phospahte. My recommended range is 0.06 to 0.3 ppm, and some great tanks have 100+ ppm phosphate.

That said, phosphate moves very slowly when trying tor arise or lower it due to a big concentration buffering effect of large amounts being temporarily bound to rock and sand.

 

[get-salty]

I have a mixed reef with sps and lps and my po4 hovering around .2

i agree with others that your current po4 level is not really a concern.

Highly suggest you do an ICP test to see what all is going on.

 

[Pistondog]

I just don’t get it. Here’s the basics:

IM 240 mixed reef, about 15 fish from tangs to gobies.

Levels attached via apex screenshot.

No matter what I do I cannot seem to get my po4 down naturally.

Tried a fuge, and although my tank can seem to grow sps just fine(ish) it can’t seem to keep chaeto or caulerpa living, despite light and flow changes adjusted in the fuge.

I’ve fed less. I now rinse all my frozen food. Nothing changes.

All of my rock is Bali live rock, not Carib sea or another known for sometimes harboring po4.

I was taught early on not to chase numbers, but now I’m at my wits end, as now I’ve lost an entire torch colony almost 40 heads, multiple heads of hammers, and my favorite GORGEOUS lobo, not to mention a huge duncan colony that only has about 10 of the 50 heads left. I’m losing my favorite corals guys.

NOW- I will say this. I’ve been absolute trash at doing water changes for several months, which I am back on top of at 25% every two weeks.

However as it pertains to this problem, my understanding is that wc doesn’t really export po4 and if it does it is a band aid.

What do I do?? I love my animals and seeing my corals that I am responsible for dying sucks.

How did the euphylia death manifest itself?
Is it possible you had brown jelly disease?
Po4 levels are fine.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I've never killed a coral with high phosphate, but I have killed corals from dropping it too quickly. I've run my reef maxing out the low range tester at 0.6+ and acros still growing out of the water.

 

[rtparty]

Have you confirmed the phosphate readings with another test kit or ICP? The Trident NP is horribly inaccurate and unreliable with PO4

 

[scowall]

It looks to me like your magnesium is too low and your calcium is too high. That could be the cause.

 

[Luke Schnabel]

I've personally seen MANY tanks with phosphate much higher than that. Although if you went from very low phosphate to that level, there could be a chance its effecting corals. But if it's been steady, likely not an issue.

I like to keep phosphate around .05-.12. There are times I have had to run GFO. If you want to run GFO. Go VERY slow. Like a 1/8 cup per 100 gallons on a slow flow reactor. I ALWAYS suggest running your GFO reactor lines into a filter sock to catch any fines that escape. Aim for reducing your phosphate slow over the next month and you should be ok.

I don't think that is what is killing your corals by the way so you may need to dig deeper to find that issue. Water changes are your best friend in these situations. (That is if your source water and salt mix is good)

 

[BryanM]

My tank is thriving, and my phosphate last night was .85.... And my nitrate was only .5.

You should consider doing an ICP-MS test and see if there's anything drastically off in your water chemistry.

Finding a balance for N and P in my tank might be the death of me.

 

[TemplarDred]

My opinion is it’s not your phosphate …. Your ratios is Ausome….. it’s your magnesium and calcium levels… magnesium is to low and calcium is to high

 

[LMSquire]

I have a mixed reef with sps and lps and my po4 hovering around .2

i agree with others that your current po4 level is not really a concern.

Highly suggest you do an ICP test to see what all is going on.

Which brand you recommend for icp test?

 

[Science/G]

Yeah I think that calcium that high and the magnesium low are probably more of a problem than the phosphates.

 

[areefer01]

Have you confirmed the phosphate readings with another test kit or ICP? The Trident NP is horribly inaccurate and unreliable with PO4

I agree with the verifying with manual tests. Not sure I would go the ICP route unless they want the wider result set. Manual tests would be fine.

With regards to the NP that is based on your opinion or experience. As a NSI tester of this unit I have put boxes of reagents through mine and it is very accurate with PO4. I am aware of members here and elsewhere posting their experiences and returning units but that does not mean it is inaccurate or the norm.

 

[Idech]

I am trying to decrease my phosphate too, and it’s about 1.2 ppm. My euphyllias aren’t dying.

 

[rtparty]

I agree with the verifying with manual tests. Not sure I would go the ICP route unless they want the wider result set. Manual tests would be fine.

With regards to the NP that is based on your opinion or experience. As a NSI tester of this unit I have put boxes of reagents through mine and it is very accurate with PO4. I am aware of members here and elsewhere posting their experiences and returning units but that does not mean it is inaccurate or the norm.

That’s based off hundreds of posts and reviews I see daily in many groups. Go follow the Neptune group on FB and see just how many people have horrible results with it

I base it on the fact that it took Neptune months and months with update after update to even get it to semi-work for most

 

[areefer01]

I base it on the fact that it took Neptune months and months with update after update to even get it to semi-work for most

Yes, they made firmware and reagent changes. As they should. That is a good thing.

 

[Ziggy17]

My guess (could be wrong) is that if you’ve been lackadaisical with water changes, perhaps you haven’t inspected throughly for pests or BJD? Unless an ICP can reveal a smoking gun, it may be something attacking the coral as those numbers don’t look like the culprit.