Greybeard's Wide, Shallow Peninsula

[HolisticBear]

Honestly, I think Triton, full blown triton method, probably needs to be reserved for a more mature tank.

I think there is a lot of truth to this and it's unfortunately under-mentioned. A few people have recommended using the 'Other Methods' until at least the 12-16 month mark and doing water changes as normal. In addition, wait until the tank has some Calcium demand before even starting 'Other Methods', which if you start with dry rock could be awhile.

Really like your tank, any chance we could get an updated FTS?

 

[minus9]

Good question.

Honestly, I think Triton, full blown triton method, probably needs to be reserved for a more mature tank. Their dosing system, equal parts of the four Core7 components, Didn't work for me. Too much alk, not enough calc, and too much 'algae booster' for my new, immature tank. I was growing algae on the glass, had to scrape it virtually every day, Alk was up over 11dkh, Calcium in the low 300's. What few SPS frags I tried bleached fairly quickly.

I _like_ the idea... a lot. Still do. I'm still using Triton testing once in a while. It's a game changer, really... The widest 'window' we've ever had available into the health of our little boxes of reef.

I think the Triton method tends to lead one down the 'chasing numbers' path, which I've never been fond of, and 'equal parts of Core7' is _not_ going to work for every tank. There's simply too much diversity in the requirements and consumption rates of the critters in each individual tank to believe that such a program is always going to work.

I've gone back to Kalkwasser. Just seems the simplest, least risky, most cost efficient method of maintaining Calcium, Alkalinity, and pH that I've ever used. It just works... until you exceed it's capacity, at which point I will revisit Triton Core7.

So... I'm skimming fairly heavily, that Vertex 180i is a beast. I run a BRS 2 stage reactor system, completely empty most of the time... I'll add a little GFO when Phosphates get above 1, but that's not often. Got a ref full of C. Mexicana under a twin tube T5... Nitrates are unmeasurable. 15% water changes bi-weekly. I've been decreasing light duration in the ref and increasing feeding slowly... and will continue to do so until I find a balance that leaves some measurable nitrate in the system. Once I get to that point, I'll make a run to a nice reef shop... likely TLReefs, and 'stock up' on corals.

One of my prime mantras has always been... Take it slow. No hurry, nothing good happens fast. I'm what, 7 months in? Getting more stable every day, the few corals that survived the Triton experiment are growing and coloring up. On the right path, just moving slow.

I'm using "other methods", mainly because my refugium isn't that big. I found it was pretty rock solid, other than my mg and ca levels were a little elevated (needed to re-calibrate my doser). I followed their recommendation for dosing, dose until you get to 8dkh and back off the amount. In the end, it's all about stability, whichever method you're using. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Greybeard]

Upgrades coming...

About 2 years before I started this peninsula, after being out of the hobby for a decade, I started a 60g cube. At that time, I picked up a RO/DI system from AirWaterIce. I've been buying from them since my 1st RO system, 20 years or so back. Chris @ AirWaterIce is good people. Anyway, I bought a Hurricane Home/Reef system. Inline sediment and carbon block, regular cartridge carbon block, 75gpd RO membrane, Premate pump, 5g pressure tank, single stage DI cart. It's a good system. We've been using it for drinking water, ice maker, and tank ever since, changing inline or normal cartridges as needed. I have to say, I never really liked the inline cartridges. Lately, I've been considering an upgrade.

So... today, I hung 3 additional filter canisters, and removed the inline cartridges. Sediment, 5 micron carbon, 1 micron carbon, RO, Premate pump, 5g pressure tank, 2 stage DI. Hopefully, this will continue to produce what I need for the foreseeable future.

When I originally received the parts from AirWaterIce, the two filter cartridge caps both had a mis-threaded 'in' port. Weird. No matter what I tried, I couldn't screw a fitting into these two ports. Just a mis-cast from their source, I guess... could have happened to anyone. A quick phone call to Chris, and two new caps were on the way, next day. Thanks, AirWaterIce, for once again providing excellent service.

New Apex Classic should be here today.

 

[Greybeard]

Spent some time pulling the RKL and installing the Apex Classic tonight. Just trying to replicate what I had, temp probe controlling heater, blue light, white light, ref light timers, skimmer (delay startup), RODI reservoir refill timer, and my two powerheads. Got it done in about 2 hours. Haven't played with alarms or alerts at all yet, I'll work on that as time goes by. So far so good.

Not being able to set the time zone from Apex Fusion is silly. Once online, you should be able to control _everything_ from their web interface. Oh well.

Amped wireless network extender worked great to get the Apex online without running a cable. I didn't suspect it'd be a problem, that sort of device is transparent to devices cabled into it. Still, nice to have it done and see it working.

Is there an Apex forum where you can go for programming help? I'd like my RODI reservoir to run 2 hours every other day. I'm not seeing an obvious method to do so.

 

[Greybeard]

So... New Apex, came with a pH probe, does trending pretty much automatically. Note, I have not yet calibrated that pH probe... I will, just haven't got round to it yet. I'm looking at relative values here, not absolute values.

Blue lights on at 12:30, white lights on at 1500, white lights off at 2030, ref lights on at 2230, blue lights off at 2300.

I know, I've got a weird light schedule, but it works for me. I just delayed my ref lights until an hour after my blue lights go off... hoping to shave off that top bump.

The initial low levels are probably related to my ATO being off, since I'd refilled my Kalkwasser reactor and was waiting for it to settle.

As I said, the actual values are probably not correct, since I haven't calibrated the sensor yet, but even ignoring the lows from early in the day, we're looking at a .35 daily swing.

Amazing... I had no idea it varied that much. I test pH fairly regularly... it's easy, so I do pH while I was waiting for my Alk test, every other day... pretty much at the same time of day, about 1800.

I'll have to calibrate that sensor this evening... see what it's really doing.

 

[Greybeard]

Wanting to play with the Apex switches... thought I might connect a float switch in my ATO reservoir to it, so I can alarm on overfill condition. Once the switches are available, I may well think of more uses for them

Apex's breakout box is poorly designed. No way I'm going to attach 6 common wires to a single screw terminal... and it doesn't match!

Avast sells one that looks good, but it's (a) a bit pricey, and (b) out of stock.

Over to Amazon... I picked up a black project box, a 6 way spring terminal strip, like you'd use to wire speakers to an amp. Very similar to what Avast is using... and a male/male black MD8 cable. Cost me like $14, and I've got 5 extra spring terminal strips and one extra MD8 plug and wire... if I ever want to build another one. Everything but the box is here now... box should be here tonight. We'll see how it goes.

Oh... google DIY Apex breakout box, it's a simple project.

 

[Greybeard]

So, $14 worth of parts, 10 minutes of soldering, one burned finger...

Without further ado... I give you...

Greybeard's Apex BOB

 

[HolisticBear]

How is the tank?

 

[Greybeard]

How is the tank?

Healthy.

I did not get off to a good start with this tank. Tried to use Triton Core7, which simply didn't work for me, stuck with it too long, because I'm stubborn... took me several months to get everything back where I wanted it. Had my ReefKeeper go nuts, had to address that (I'm an Apex user now). Happily, I never went out and bought a bunch of corals for the new tank, so the only losses were frags from friends. Unfortunate that I lost anything, but at least I didn't loose a bunch of expensive frags.

Once I switched off of the Core7 (I'm just using Kalk at this point, but plan to add BRS 2pt, as I need it), then I had a nutrient problem. Never had to fight to keep nitrate in a tank before... I guess I went overboard a bit. removed three quarters of the 4 liters of DeNitrate I had in the sump, removed most of the live rock in the sump, removed the GFO, and started fairly massive overfeeding. A month of that, and I'm finally able to measure _some_ nitrate in the system. Corals are coloring up again. I've got a few spots of an emerald green variety of cyano... at least I think it's cyano... brought on by a fairly rapid rise in phosphate, I'm sure. I added a small dose of GFO to the reactor yesterday, and will syphon it out at my next water change. I'm not expecting it to last long.

So... I've got three varieties of Monti Cap, all growing, with good color, I've got a batch of palythoa, looking good, a couple of different zoanthids looking nice and healthy, a small branching hammer that survived all the turmoil, green finger leather is doing well, and a gorgonian that I would have sworn was dead, that appears to be coming back around.

Fish have been fine all the way through. I added two 4" female G. Melanospilos (Spotbreast Angelfish) to the tank on Saturday. Beautiful critters. I hope to add a male in the next few weeks. My orange spot rabbitfish is growing like a weed, over 5" long now. Fish are all healthy and happy.

I ordered some additional clean up crew a couple of weeks ago, got a handful of nassarius in good shape, but the Ceriths that I ordered didn't make it. No big deal, vendor refunded the price, but I still need some algae eaters... I'll get some more ordered soon. Pair of Sand Conchs are doing well, Between them and the goatfish, sand bed looks pretty good

Anyway, slow but steady. There's a frag meet in St. Louis next Saturday. I hope to attend, pick up some nice bits to add to the system.

 

[najer]

Lol "stubborn", ... let's not mention Tri on anymore!
Glad to hear things are turning around for you, enjoy frag shopping.

 

[Greybeard]

I'd list stubborn as one of my positive character traits... I don't give up. I have no doubt that this will be a successful reef, because I'm unwilling to settle for anything else.

As for Triton... I'm not knocking their offering. I _love_ the Triton ICP testing. I think it's the best thing to come along in reefing since propeller pumps. I like their overall philosophy, and I _love_ the idea of a detailed plan that a new reefer can follow with some expectation of success... unfortunately, their plan didn't work for me. Why not? A combination of things, I'm sure. The exact details of my system build, how I established my bio-filter, my rather old fashioned ideas of aquarium husbandry, the inexact nature of inexpensive dosing pumps... simple bad timing... who knows. One size does not fit all... as an old, grey-bearded fatman, I'm quite used to the fact that 'one size fits most' isn't going to work for me. I've got nothing negative to say about Triton, except that it didn't work for me.

I went to the SLASH show last year, didn't buy much, but it was a fun day with friends... I'll take some cash, but I still don't expect to spend a great deal there this year. Once I've got several months of stable parameters, showing solid growth from my cheap corals, I'll make a trip to one of the high quality frag sellers within a days' drive... likely TLReefs, and buy a couple dozen frags. I'm just not quite there yet.

I won a Tunze magnetic cleaner at that show last year... I'd probably never have bought one, they're a bit pricey for me, but having won one... Great piece of gear. I had to buy the Strong version for my new tank. Just works so much better than the Mag Float or Flipper magnetic cleaners I'm used to using.

 

[najer]

<<< minus the fat bit, I do things because they tell me I can't plus I'm lazy, you know the feel of your tank, I think that helps the most rather than chasing numbers.

 

[Janci]

Healthy.

I did not get off to a good start with this tank. Tried to use Triton Core7, which simply didn't work for me, stuck with it too long, because I'm stubborn... took me several months to get everything back where I wanted it. Had my ReefKeeper go nuts, had to address that (I'm an Apex user now). Happily, I never went out and bought a bunch of corals for the new tank, so the only losses were frags from friends. Unfortunate that I lost anything, but at least I didn't loose a bunch of expensive frags.

Once I switched off of the Core7 (I'm just using Kalk at this point, but plan to add BRS 2pt, as I need it), then I had a nutrient problem. Never had to fight to keep nitrate in a tank before... I guess I went overboard a bit. removed three quarters of the 4 liters of DeNitrate I had in the sump, removed most of the live rock in the sump, removed the GFO, and started fairly massive overfeeding. A month of that, and I'm finally able to measure _some_ nitrate in the system. Corals are coloring up again. I've got a few spots of an emerald green variety of cyano... at least I think it's cyano... brought on by a fairly rapid rise in phosphate, I'm sure. I added a small dose of GFO to the reactor yesterday, and will syphon it out at my next water change. I'm not expecting it to last long.

So... I've got three varieties of Monti Cap, all growing, with good color, I've got a batch of palythoa, looking good, a couple of different zoanthids looking nice and healthy, a small branching hammer that survived all the turmoil, green finger leather is doing well, and a gorgonian that I would have sworn was dead, that appears to be coming back around.

Fish have been fine all the way through. I added two 4" female G. Melanospilos (Spotbreast Angelfish) to the tank on Saturday. Beautiful critters. I hope to add a male in the next few weeks. My orange spot rabbitfish is growing like a weed, over 5" long now. Fish are all healthy and happy.

I ordered some additional clean up crew a couple of weeks ago, got a handful of nassarius in good shape, but the Ceriths that I ordered didn't make it. No big deal, vendor refunded the price, but I still need some algae eaters... I'll get some more ordered soon. Pair of Sand Conchs are doing well, Between them and the goatfish, sand bed looks pretty good

Anyway, slow but steady. There's a frag meet in St. Louis next Saturday. I hope to attend, pick up some nice bits to add to the system.

Good to hear things are getting better.
Core7 works for many, but I guess a fairly new tank is still subject to many small processes and cycles and that might not be what the Core7 is good at supplying.
Maybe once parameters are stable...
I love the angelfish selection, gorgeous fish. Maybe one of the female will convert to a male in the future?

 

[Greybeard]

I love the angelfish selection, gorgeous fish. Maybe one of the female will convert to a male in the future?

I've always loved the Genicanthus angels. Beautiful, and much more appropriate for reef systems that many of the dwarf angels that people keep in reefs. Ok, so they're not neon bright... it's a bit more subtle, but they're beautiful, all the same. Active, full of personality... I've never really understood why they're not more popular. Someone on here was breeding one of the Genicanthus species, and having some success. I'd love to see captive bred examples of the family start to be available.

I've asked my LFS guy to be on the lookout for a male, but I'm not so sure that I should try and keep 3 of these fairly large fish in my ~140g tank. I've seen articles documenting sex changes in both directions in this family. Honestly, as long as the females don't fight (they haven't so far), I'm not so worried about it. I won't be raising fry, in any case!

I've always preferred to have fewer, larger fishes. Scopas tang, Orange spotted Rabbitfish, 2X Spotbreast Angels, Bicolor Goatfish. All are going to be fairly large fish at some point. The others, a Smith's blenny, a single ocellaris clown (his partner jumped,), and 4x PJ Cardinals, are small, and will remain that way. I'm figuring I'm at capacity on this... aside from perhaps replacing the clown that jumped, I'm done buying fish.

I may have to pull the Scopas at some point. I'm expecting the others will be fine. With the minimalist rockwork, there's ample swimming space in the tank, though perhaps it's a bit shallow for a foot long tang

The pair of Angels are doing well. Happily eating frozen foods, and even browsing on the nori sheets I keep for the tang and rabbitfish.

 

[Greybeard]

Lucky shot... Excepting a few of the Cardinals, which look a whole lot like the one I did get... this is _all_ of my fishes Perhaps not a great shot of the new Angels, but still, a lucky shot!

You can clearly see the emerald green cyano bloom, if cyano it is, in the rocks. Started showing up about a week ago... comes off easy, I'm sure I'll be able to get rid of it, but it's a bit annoying at the moment.

 

[Greybeard]

And one of the new Angels, in all her glory

 

[Greybeard]

In progress pic of bookshelf unit...

TODO: Paint interior gloss white, coat exterior with clear poly, apply red oak edge trim, purchase 26" x 14.5" 1/4" plate glass shelves, outside edge rounded, mount cabinet LED lights.

Oh, and do the 2nd unit.

If anyone ever wants to do this sort of system again... I advise 24" width. 30" width has increased costs exponentially. I love the look, but _everything_ I do takes significantly more material, more money, more time... just more. In this instance, a 30" wide cabinet unit means I needed 2 sheets of 3/4" ply PER SHELF. If it'd been 24", I would have been able to do it with 1 sheet per cabinet.

Oh well... if I'd have gone 24", I'd likely have been unhappy with it and ended up replacing it. At this point, I'm very happy with the end result, but my budget went out the window many miles back.

 

[HolisticBear]

At this point, I'm very happy with the end result, but my budget went out the window many miles back.

It's a beautiful tank and you could argue the budget was shot the second you said the word reef tank aloud. It would have been far worse had you had no budget

Getting very close to ordering a small Planet Aquariums peninsula + metal stand, so this your build thread has been helpful.

 

[Greybeard]

Carcass construction complete... Finish is next.

Wife is campaigning towards clear coat inside, rather than bright white... It's all pretty nice oak ply... I was only thinking white so that you could better see items displayed here, but clear coated oak would look fine too. Single color finish would probably be easier, anyway.

I'm seriously considering bonding some 3/4" oak edge veneer around the front ply edges and calling it done, rather than building a solid oak face frame. I kinda like the black steel outline, and the face frame that I had in mind would cover nearly all of it. Save me a bit on the solid oak, too. Added bonus, the shelves would be easily removable. They won't be, if I build the face frame.

Opinions?

 

[HolisticBear]

Opinions?

The steel does look cool. When you mentioned white, it made me wonder how it would look if you painted the entire wood carcass white, the contrast between white + black could be cool. We painted some cabinets in our old house Benjamin Moore Swiss Coffee and they came out nice. They even have a sample of it against a black trim color on their web site. Random 2cent, pick what you like