Growing corals fore the first time

[maff2026]

Hi all,
I've been keeping fish for some 40 years and my last venture into marine was back in 1989 but didn't grow corals. My old set up was a 150L tank, coral rock and coral sand, one anenemy, a clown, 2 damsels, an anglefish but can't remember which, a goby, a blemmie plus a cleaner shrimp. Back then, I had two power heads running an undergravel filter and the lighting consisted of two cathode tubes one white light and one ultra violet.
Boy things have changed these days and I've already got my gear for a small marine which is my converted fresh water 150L tank:
Lighting, two Kessils.
Cannister 1450L/H purely as a mechanical filter.
UV power head 700L/H
Wave maker Jacod SOW8
Protein skimmer Bubble Magus
5 stage RO filter. Works brilliant with 0.00 TDS.
So, I bought Caribsea aragonite and some coral rock, washed the aragonite for 6 hours because it was quite powdery then rinced in RO water before putting in tank. Got everything in the tank spot on, put in the RO water and inside a day it was super clear then BOOM, white bacteria bloom. I assume from organics trapped in the aragonite which is a bit dissapointing but I'll just ride that out with time.
My plan is soft corals such as zoas with maybe some easier LPS and maybe 5 small fish and a shrimp.
I have no room for a sump otherwise I would have had one so making use of the room I have.
So that's where I'm currently at. Bacteria bloom with no salt in yet.

 

[Fish Fan]

Yes, straight RO (I'm going to assume you mean RODI) water is so pure it will pull organic material from everything, in cladding your rock and even from the air. The sand could have also been a source of the organic material that fueled your bacterial bloom....

Goods new! The bacteria almost certainly can't persist in saltwater, so if you haven't yet, get that salinity up, and I'll bet those bacterial die off almost instantly :-)

Good luck!

 

[Fish Fan]

Growing corals fore the first time

Hi all, I've been keeping fish for some 40 years and my last venture into marine was back in 1989 but didn't grow corals. My old set up was a 150L tank, coral rock and coral sand, one anenemy, a clown, 2 damsels, an anglefish but can't remember which, a goby, a blemmie plus a cleaner...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[maff2026]

Yes, straight RO (I'm going to assume you mean RODI) water is so pure it will pull organic material from everything, in cladding your rock and even from the air. The sand could have also been a source of the organic material the field your material bloom....

Goods new! The bacteria almost certainly can't persist in saltwater, so if you haven't yet, get that salinity up, and I'll bet those bacterial die off almost instantly :-)

Good luck!

Great advice. Added the instant ocean salts this afternoon and its cleared the tank. PH is at 8.5 at the moment which is higher than I anticipated.
One other thing: On monday the heater was running the tank at my normal 26c which is what I run that tank at. Tuesday when I turned on the wave maker, the skimmer and the UV power head, temperature went way above the norm hitting 29/30c by the end of the day. Unplugged the heater late last night and this morning the tank is sat at the normal 26c and has done so all day with an ambiant room temperature of 23c.
My conclusion is that I don't need the heater sat at 26c so I've turned it down to 24c as a back up because the other equipment is keeping the tank at a constant 26c and its only 4c outside.
With both lights on today saw a further increase of 1c to 27c which in the summer months will rise higher. So I've put a fan on a timer following the light schedule running at half power and its dropped the temp back to 26c and if that gets higher in the summer I can increase the fan speed.
I've come to the conclusion that marine tanks are now more complex than the space shuttle.

 

[maff2026]

So......assuming my tank settles in during the next week, my PH settles down and KH is good, no phosphates, no nitrates or ammonia for that matter from the aragonite and everything looks good to cycle what would be a good plan of action for corals and fish?
All 6 small fish in over a longish period of about 12 months adding each fish as my parameters allow one by one then start adding corals?
Or maybe half the fish in (3) over say 6 months and add coral between?
What's the best way?
Also some very easy soft corals for me to start off on. I have 100 par on the bottom of the tank, my highest coral rock is 10 inch below the surface and has a par of about 250 with ledges inbetween the 2 at various par elevels between 100 and 250.
Thanks.

 

[SantaMonica]

The canister might be something you don't want to use. Easy to start without it and see how it goes. It's going to trap pods and food particles and they are going to rot. Generally it's better to let everything stay in the display for the animals to eat.

 

[maff2026]

The canister might be something you don't want to use. Easy to start without it and see how it goes. It's going to trap pods and food particles and they are going to rot. Generally it's better to let everything stay in the display for the animals to eat.

The cannister is the only means of mechanical filtration I have at the moment. The tank is too small to build a partition and put a sock filter system behind it, I'd lose too much space.
The cannister has a medium, a course and two 50 micron polyester filters then a tray of ceramic biomedia which eventually will seed with aerobic bacteria as the tank matures. The poly filters will catch any debris that goes through there and I'll change them out monthly.
Cannister is not the best but its better than no mechanical filtration at all IMO.

 

[dedragon]

The poly filters will catch any debris that goes through there and I'll change them out monthly.
Cannister is not the best but its better than no mechanical filtration at all IMO.

the problem is canister filters should have mechanical filtration changed, or at least rinsed, 1x per week. ideally 2x. seachem tidal 75 or 110 hob is a great alternative. i linked both us and uk site just in case 1 link didnt work
Amazon product
Amazon product

 

[maff2026]

the problem is canister filters should have mechanical filtration changed, or at least rinsed, 1x per week. ideally 2x. seachem tidal 75 or 110 hob is a great alternative. i linked both us and uk site just in case 1 link didnt work
Amazon product
Amazon product

I simply haven't got the room for this type of filter, very restricted for space.
It's a small 40 gallon tank, its not far off being classed as a nano in fact. My filter is 1450L/H which can cycle the tank realisticly at about 8 tanks an hour. It's performed very well in the past and although not idea it does give me the opportunity to change out filters when ever required.
I've seen a few people running small tanks on cannister very successfully.
Edit: Actually its a 35 gallon tank not 40 gallon.

 

[dedragon]

I simply haven't got the room for this type of filter, very restricted for space.

in or behind the tank? it only needs like 3.5" clearance.
at 35 gallons you could drop down to the seachem 55 but it is still so much easier to deal with than the canister. they work but monthly cleaning is most likely gonna make it a nutrient factory so nitrates and phosphates will likely be very high.
the seachem 75 is very similar at max flow rate to your canister but getting the food suspended with good wavemakers is more optimal and more important for corals as well. the filter will pick it up later.
you can choose to use a canister and some do. i was just giving you an alternative option to make your life a bit easier

 

[maff2026]

in or behind the tank? it only needs like 3.5" clearance.
at 35 gallons you could drop down to the seachem 55 but it is still so much easier to deal with than the canister. they work but monthly cleaning is most likely gonna make it a nutrient factory so nitrates and phosphates will likely be very high.
the seachem 75 is very similar at max flow rate to your canister but getting the food suspended with good wavemakers is more optimal and more important for corals as well. the filter will pick it up later.
you can choose to use a canister and some do. i was just giving you an alternative option to make your life a bit easier

Thanks for your input because you've really made me think about this.
In the tank? 35 gallon with the rest of the equipment will take a lot of space up and external, because the tank is in an alcove, most of the room is taken on the back of the tank with skimmer, lighting goose necks and input wires etc but you gave me a super idea.
I've just bought this:
https://www.finest-filters.co.uk/ex...sSG3y5RCT-PN2ArH3rwpQnnoH7ci1nWoaAgy2EALw_wcB
Now, having the 50 micron poly filters and fine, medium and course sponges in the main cannister filter with my bio ceramic media isn't a good idea and it will become a nitrate factory. But, if I install the pre filter as in the link provided, I have the room to install this at the side of the cannister. It has two taps, all you do is turn the flow off with both taps, whip the lid off in situ, take out the filters and clean with RO water, bob in a new 50 micron poly in and bobs ya uncle. Don't have to drag a cannister filter into the kitchen making a mess and can do this twice a week with relative ease.

 

[maff2026]

BTW I bought the 2.3L version.

 

[dedragon]

that should make it a lot easier on yourself

 

[maff2026]

that should make it a lot easier on yourself

The downside is it will reduce pump pressure but not by too much. Because I'm taking the filter sponges out of the cannister completely and having just two trays of biomedia, there will be a pressure increase on that side.
That pressure increase will be nullified by the fact I have those sponges in a seperate filter plus more piping. Only two feet more pipe so it won't be too far off stock pressure.

 

[Fish Fan]

Don't over think all this mechanical filtration, it's not needed

Many reefers run with no mechanical filtration at all, including Josh Earle from World Wide Corals. If you don't keep up with changing the mechanical media in your canister (even if you have that pre filter), the detritus will rot and raise nitrate. If you absolutely must go with a canister filter (and I too MUCH prefer a good Hang On Back filter to a canister filter for saltwater), I would suggest just loading the canister with rock rubble. This minimizes the maintenance on the canister, and turns it into a refugium of sorts. I know a few members here on R2R run their tanks successfully with a canister loaded with rock rubble, this seems to be the best setup for using a canister filter on a reef tank.

 

[dedragon]

looks like they are gonna test out a pre filter and just biomedia in the canister. hopefully the prefilter is much easier to just take out and clean. i hope the best for em

 

[maff2026]

looks like they are gonna test out a pre filter and just biomedia in the canister. hopefully the prefilter is much easier to just take out and clean. i hope the best for em

Indeed. One other benefit I'm getting from the cannister is the return flow which is aimed behind the reef with a swivel head. It absolutely will not allow detritus to settle behind the reef so its one less wavemaker to have in the tank. Three points of flow in the tank, my wavemaker is across the front of the reef on an upward angle currently set on a sign wave pulse at about 4000l/h, the filter return is about 1250l/h behind the reef both blowing debris towards the filter inlet. Then I have UV powerhead disturbing the surface with air inclusion at 700l/h.
I Figure thats good water movement for a 35 gallon.

 

[maff2026]

Don't over think all this mechanical filtration, it's not needed

Many reefers run with no mechanical filtration at all, including Josh Earle from World Wide Corals. If you don't keep up with changing the mechanical media in your canister (even if you have that pre filter), the detritus will rot and raise nitrate. If you absolutely must go with a canister filter (and I too MUCH prefer a good Hang On Back filter to a canister filter for saltwater), I would suggest just loading the canister with rock rubble. This minimizes the maintenance on the canister, and turns it into a refugium of sorts. I know a few members here on R2R run their tanks successfully with a canister loaded with rock rubble, this seems to be the best setup for using a canister filter on a reef tank.

That also applies to any form of filter whether it be a cannister, a sump or a devided in tank system.
Take as sump for example, everyone has different ways of filtering. Some use the sump as an eco system with algae in there keeping the nitrates and phosphates down, a selection of rock with its own aerobic bacteria colony etc and that is the best option IMO. BUT...some sumps I've seen don't do this. Some people choose to devide the sump into seperate compartments with sponge filters in the first section or a sock, then biomedia in the second section, then the skimmer, heater and pump in the last section. For those fish keepers in particular, the cleaning of the sponges in the first section is just as important as cleaning my sponges in my pre filter.
Technically there is no difference in that set up to a cannister apart from the water see's a lot more oxygen on its journey in a sump which is beneficial.

 

[Fish Fan]

That also applies to any form of filter whether it be a cannister, a sump or a devided in tank system.
Take as sump for example, everyone has different ways of filtering. Some use the sump as an eco system with algae in there keeping the nitrates and phosphates down, a selection of rock with its own aerobic bacteria colony etc and that is the best option IMO. BUT...some sumps I've seen don't do this. Some people choose to devide the sump into seperate compartments with sponge filters in the first section or a sock, then biomedia in the second section, then the skimmer, heater and pump in the last section. For those fish keepers in particular, the cleaning of the sponges in the first section is just as important as cleaning my sponges in my pre filter.
Technically there is no difference in that set up to a cannister apart from the water see's a lot more oxygen on its journey in a sump which is beneficial.

I don't disagree, but the maintenance is A LOT easier on other filters, such as HOB, than a canister. That's my my biggest grip with canisters is they are tedious to maintain, and I've had them leak on me before. I can pull, toss and replace a wad of filter floss in an AquaClear HOB filter in literally about three seconds. Most, but not all, canister filters have to be taken off-line and taken apart to change the media, which can lead people to not replacing the media as often as they should.

I'm not saying you can't use a canister filter on a reef tank, many here on R2R do and quite successfully, but from what I've seen the best strategy is to load them with rock rubble, and limit the mechanical pads, sponges, floss, etc. to a very minimum. You then create a safe haven (a refugium) for copepods and other organisms to thrive, which then consume the detritus in the filter.

And it's true that many reefers run no mechanical filtration at all, including some very, very good ones. The belief is that all the detritus is beneficial to the livestock and should not be filtered out.

My point was just that you don't need to stress about having mechanical filtration in your canister or anywhere else in your tank, that's all

 

[maff2026]

@f

I don't disagree, but the maintenance is A LOT easier on other filters, such as HOB, than a canister. That's my my biggest grip with canisters is they are tedious to maintain, and I've had them leak on me before. I can pull, toss and replace a wad of filter floss in an AquaClear HOB filter in literally about three seconds. Most, but not all, canister filters have to be taken off-line and taken apart to change the media, which can lead people to not replacing the media as often as they should.

I'm not saying you can't use a canister filter on a reef tank, many here on R2R do and quite successfully, but from what I've seen the best strategy is to load them with rock rubble, and limit the mechanical pads, sponges, floss, etc. to a very minimum. You then create a safe haven (a refugium) for copepods and other organisms to thrive, which then consume the detritus in the filter.

And it's true that many reefers run no mechanical filtration at all, including some very, very good ones. The belief is that all the detritus is beneficial to the livestock and should not be filtered out.

My point was just that you don't need to stress about having mechanical filtration in your canister or anywhere else in your tank, that's all

Hi Fish Fan, if you read the thread I'm not keeping sponges and polys in my cannister as it stands. It will be filled with ceramic noodles only, negating the trapping of food and detritis.
The pre filter has the sponges and polys but the good thing is, the pre filter has two taps which can isolate it from the system, take the sponges and polys out in situ, clean with RO and replace the sponges and a new poly without having to take the cannister apart.
The pre filter is only 2.3 liters capacity and easy to deal with unlike a cannister.
I can change those twice a week, five minute job unlike a cannister's half hour job.
If I'm going to use a cannister then I had to get the sponges out of it.