Guilt in the reefing hobby

[Zionas]

Many more fish are killed, and a lot more damage is done to ocean habitats because of human consumption rather than the marine ornamental hobby. Most dynamite, cyanide fishing is proportionally directed towards catching and stunning / killing fish for food. A lot of beautiful and fascinating (but too large for the average or even significantly larger than average home aquarium) species end up on dinner tables in Cantonese cuisine.

Having said this, certain species / certain categories of fish that make their way in our hobby are still being caught with destructive methods and it pains my heart to see a total lack of respect for these beautiful creatures all for profit. This especially applies to larger, show sized specimens of delicately patterned fish.

I’ve struggled with the moral implications of our hobby in the past, but then I’ve come to realize that as long as we give these beautiful creatures the care they deserve, by trying our best to attend to their needs in captivity, by treating them as family and as companions we hold dear (and I’m sure all of us here do), it’s no different than owning that cat, dog, bird, or exotic snake or frog or lizard or tarantula or whatever. I don’t think we can cultivate such a deep and intimate appreciation of reef ecosystems if we only go on that scuba diving or snorkeling trip once or couple times a year. Only by caring with these animals and “working for” them are we really able to foster a much deeper understanding of them and why it’s so important that we have them around.

I mean, just look at the sheer variety in size, shapes, colors, behaviors, temperaments among the variety of creatures we keep in our tanks. I don’t think that such great diversity, variety, and beauty could be crafted by pure chance or the tides of “natural selection.” Both our bodies and their bodies, minds, skeletons and so on could not have been shaped by anything other than our Maker. Amen. From a purely scientific perspective, our earliest ancestors were fish-like creatures. Don’t you just think it’s fascinating how that little Clownfish or basslet in your tank is biologically and ancestrally connected to you, even if in the slightest?

There are certain species that our tanks will never have enough room for them. Large angels, Tangs, butterflies and so on travel tens of not hundred of miles. However, many smaller fish don’t really take up that much space whether in our tanks or in the ocean. Clownfish don’t stray far from their anemones or whatever surrogates they have in our tanks. Gobies don’t stray far from the burrows made by their Alpheus Pistol shrimp partners. Basslets, Assessors, Grammas, Marine Bettas etc. don’t stray far from their caves and overhangs. The less active fish maybe occupy an area equivalent to 30-50 gallons regardless of whether they’re in our tanks or in the wild.

And then there’s captive breeding. Only a handful of species are captive bred today, and only a handful among that are captive bred on a regular or semi-regular basis. Here in Asia we don’t have access to fish from facilities like ORA, Sustainable Aquatics. Bali Aquarich and Biota located right at our doorstep only export to Asian markets on a time-to-time basis. Unfortunately for now we have to make do with wild collected fish and corals.

However, taking into consideration the points above, I believe that by striving to be the most conscientious and caring hobbyists we can be, we should feel no guilt. As others have mentioned, most fish on the reef don’t make it for nearly as long as they do in our tanks. Predators, being killed by the impact of a dynamite fisherman catching that Napoleon Wrasse that will go to some luxury seafood restaurant in Hong Kong, coral bleaching and global warming and so on, one day the majority of certain reef species may only occur in our tanks if we keep destroying coral reefs at this rate all because of human profit and greed. We feel sad and beat ourselves up when fish get sick and die in our care, or even because they’ve reached their time. I don’t see how that’s any different from our dogs, cats, hamsters and so on. As a reef lover and a general animal lover they’re the same to me.

Let’s hope that we’ll be able to have an increasingly large selection of aquacultured livestock in the future. Conservation groups and research groups may well need us to be their allies, their wingmen in the future. One day I hope we can not only culture fish and grow corals for our fellow hobbyists, but for none other than Mother Nature herself.

 

[Zionas]

I surely hope our hobby continues to proposer and grow stronger and at the same time, more sustainable. I’d be very sad to say the least if that day ever comes. Let’s keep all the little creatures in our tanks happy and I’d love it more than anything to have a .38 round into the heads of politicians and legislators who stand in the way of our hobby yet treat their fellow human beings like cattle. I mean we treat our livestock better than they treat us lol, so why should we let them tell us what not to do? Lol.

Let’s hope we can all remain in this hobby for as long as we’re alive, and to educate future generations on the beauty of what we do.

At the risk of “anthropomorphizing” our livestock too much, perhaps one way to look at it in more human terms would be choosing between two different lifestyles. One where you have more choice, but you also have to deal with many more variables, risks, and things could potentially go south for you on any day with just wrong move. High risk but adventurous and varied lifestyle. The other is one where you have somewhat less choice and variables, much less dynamic, but where you’re well-provided for, where your health and safety are relatively more guaranteed. The trade-off is that you’ll have less to play around with, and over the years you’ll have less stories to tell than those who were out there experiencing all those highs and lows and wanting to “make it on their own.”

As a human I’m gravitating more and more towards the second lifestyle the older I become. The world outside may be fun, but also fraught with peril. I’m getting more and more content just having a little corner and not risking much.


外面的世界很精彩、外面的世界很無奈。(The world out there is a spectacular yet helpless / hopeless one. Same applies to the reef.)

 

[rob s.]

Try to buy captive bred or buy fish/coral from other hobbyists.

If you eat fish, you contribute magnitudes more to the destruction of ocean life than you do by buying ornamental fish.

i eat fish on a regular basis and take offense to you saying i contribute to the ocean life destruction!! I participate in beach clean ups all the time, I always bring back more refuse than i take out with me when i fish, just like when i hunt i always find trash to take out of the woods with me. I am so tired of the judgemental niave holier than thou people who think they are above it all. Come back to reality. I see ur profile pic is of a cat. Do you contribute to the unnesesary breeding of to many cats in our country by owning a cat!! tick off....

 

[Doctorgori]

I’ve been to the Philippines. GREAT people, friendly people, but very poor people. I saw cut down rainforest, cockatoos & snakes for sale, all manner of fish and wildlife “products”. I was sad.

I have some understanding about living off the Earth resources; both my parent are/were Hillbillies from Appalachia, born during the depression, Dad said coon and “possum” was often their only protein.

I dunno, I lean towards environmental;ism but to cure most environmental ills, the people have to have economic choices other than stripping the Earth of low hanging fruit.

I still feel in spite of all the animals we kill during captivity it pales in comparison to food collection.

 

[ChrisNH]

Better my tank then a gaff line and dinner plate. We are talking about fish here..

That being said I prefer aquacultured fish and always research the wild population status before I buy.

 

[Paul B]

I don't know. I live right near a beach and here in New York our tide goes up and down 8'. Millions of fish die in the tide pools when the tide goes out. Those fish are not as cute or colorful as the fish we keep so we don't consider them that important.

I also eat fish almost every day and grew up in my Dads sea food market so my life was spent living with dead fish.
I have also been SCUBA diving for over 50 years and in one hour I have seen a trumpetfish eat more fish that I have bought in many years. I am not sure if he feels remorse. Just full.

Here where I live on Long Island they trap bunker (Menhaden) fish for either bait in crab traps or fertilizer. They also collect horseshoe crabs by the ton for the same purpose or for medical purposes.

I do feel bad every day when I see these disease forums and the amount of fish we are needlessly killing. If my fish don't die of old age I know I failed and I think the fish feels the same way. ;Bucktooth

 

[Zionas]

+1.

 

[Zionas]

I’ve also been to the Philippines and I feel the same way. Very friendly people, very warm and hospitable making someone of East Asian descent like me seem very reserved and closed off in comparison. However, I guess you can’t really afford that much in ethics when you’re wondering what your next meal’s going to be. Still, doesn’t mean I like them any more for what they do to wildlife including our fish. Rich-poor gap in that country is unbelievable. Corruption’s rampant. Very nice people but on average, not the most intellectually inclined save for the mavericks of their society. I visited an LFS in Manila but I didn’t really talk about these issues with the owner. Pity.

I really feel they could be a force to be reckoned with (in a good way) had history been kinder to them.

 

[Zionas]

Sorry, got a bit too passionate and carried away there. I just want to see our hobby thrive well into the future and be protected at all costs.

 

[Suesea]

I am starting to feel more guilty about how much fossil fuels we burn and whats its doing to the natural habitat of all wild animals, including our but we are all part of the problem. I think it became more clear after my son was born 2 years ago.. Like we are just wasting away and leaving nothing for the future generation

I totally agree with you....during the pandemic, when States started shutting down you could actually see the difference in the air quality. Cities that were usually smog ridden were clear and you could see for miles. It was just a temporary glimpse of what we can do. Deforestation is basically killing thousands of species of animals and plants, trees. Mangrove forests are greatly affected which is putting our oceans in danger along with its inhabitants. So no, I don't feel guilty about buying and caring for my fish crew.

 

[Thaxxx]

This has morphed into a "Lounge" thread

 

[stoneroller]

Of course. I believe if you don't feel some level of guilt for enclosing these critters in extremely small spaces (even the biggest of tanks or commercial aquariums) then you really shouldn't be in the hobby. Most of the posts are missing the point of the OP IMO; it's not akin to fishing or hunting for food and its not just about captive vs. wild. It's about limiting the range of a species adapted/evolved/driven to SWIM, seek habitat and food, form schools, or flee as needed at will (of course not all fishes will fit that bill but most do). I certainly feel guilt about a lot of things I do to animals, the air, the water, the planet, etc. but I think that's natural for humans to do so (I'm sure there's a spectrum on that too).

 

[Thaxxx]

Since this thread has gone in every direction, I'm gonna take it off the rails.

Who are we to say what purpose God created life in the sea? These fish and Corals are so beautiful and gives most humans a feeling of peace and pleasure when observing them. Why did He make them so beautiful? Some might say for our pleasure. I think most believers would say that. Being able to have them in our homes is about the only way to enjoy them for most.
Okay....
Back to our normal programming........

 

[homer1475]

Nope not one bit.

 

[reefpatrique]

Hey all,

I was just wondering if anyone feels guilty about keeping these tropical fish in our tanks. I was just reading about how they're stunned and captured, and many of them die during the process.

I just have been feeling a little guilty about taking them from their native homes, and putting them in these restrictive tanks, what do you guys think- just wondering about other people's opinions.

If there is any reason to feel guilt it's being part of the reefing hobby itself. The reefing hobby is an exercise of excess -- on par with, say, getting into golf, accounting for cost and time. Those resources could be put to much better use for supporting humanitarian efforts. Animal welfare is a secondary consideration. Do I feel guilt? Sometimes. Live in the tension.

 

[ReefLab]

i eat fish on a regular basis and take offense to you saying i contribute to the ocean life destruction!! I participate in beach clean ups all the time, I always bring back more refuse than i take out with me when i fish, just like when i hunt i always find trash to take out of the woods with me. I am so tired of the judgemental niave holier than thou people who think they are above it all. Come back to reality. I see ur profile pic is of a cat. Do you contribute to the unnesesary breeding of to many cats in our country by owning a cat!! tick off....

my cat I adopted from a local kill shelter.
You may take offense to it but it is an irrefutable fact. Look up bottom trawling and by-kill. Fishing wrecks havoc on the ocean and every time you purchase a fish, you pay someone to do it for you.

it’s great that you participate in ocean cleanups but I think it’s naive of you to think that fishing does not destroy the ecology of the ocean.

 

[James Macaluso]

Working with fish and coral at an LFS as well as a aquarium service tech for about 3 years, it still hurts to see a fish that traveled for thousands of miles to make it into a glass box, develop ick and die without ever even making it into an owners tank.

I remember one that stung was when we were brought a gemmatum (Gem Tang) that wasn’t eating and quickly developed velvet. No dip, medication or food could stop how fast it was deteriorating. Made me think that it might have not suffered the same fate if it were left alone and free in the wild.

Another scenario that hurt was when someone caught a Atlantic Queen Triggerfish while offshore fishing. They are restricted species, but sometimes end up as bycatch when targeting snapper. Being reeled up from 200ft, it was severely bloated, and despite being vented it still couldn’t swim down anymore. Pained me to see such a beautiful fish float away.

Despite all this, if it weren’t for the aquarium hobby and fishing, I would’ve never been so appreciative for the ocean and it’s creatures. No other hobbies get you so close to the animals and give perspective into how unique they are. If it weren’t for reefing, I would’ve Never considered taking up marine biology in college. Yet, thanks to this hobby, that’s what I’m pursuing today.

 

[Jen1978]

Not really any guilt here. Most of mine were captive bred. Just like any other common house pet these days. They are all decendents from wild wolves and cats of some sort bred to our liking.

 

[alain Bouchard]

a fish in nature live with the constant possibility that it may be eaten at all time. In my tank, they have a stable and safe environment, and have plenty of quality food. I feel guilty when I am not able to provide either security, food or health. Otherwise, it's like keeping a dog or a cat. If they were unhappy about humans, our relationship wouldn't have been such a success over time.

 

[Zionas]

Another way to look at it within the context of the hobby is that, for every fish, Coral, or anything we buy, that same piece of livestock could have ended up in the tank of a totally ignorant buyer or a public aquarium, the latter which often practice worse husbandry techniques than us home aquarists. From a purely “appreciative” POV, for every piece of livestock that ends up in the hands of people like us who know or want to know what we’re doing, that same piece of livestock could have ended up in the sights of a layman who knows little to nothing about appreciating and learning about these creatures and only goes “oh look that one’s pretty.”

Just look at the way public aquariums treat dolphins and orcas. Yes, they’re not fish but mammals, but many of their techniques we would not remotely fathom giving the same callous disregard for the well-being of what ends up in my hands. Heck due to the “special” times we’re in I haven’t even started my tank yet but I’m researching the heck out of stuff and asking questions because I want to get as much right as possible the first time around. I highly doubt most public institutions like aquariums genuinely have the well-being of their livestock as their first and foremost priority. Whether they claim it’s for “research purposes” or anything else, they treat animals like statistics and sources of profit more than anything else, rather than as the marvelous creations that we see them as.

Here in China there are hotels that set up saltwater tanks to attract customers, as well as some businessmen (AKA legalized mob bosses) who, out of superstition, think keeping fish in their office will bring them good luck. They’re anything but hobbyists and couldn’t care less about actually wanting to make sure their fish and corals are well provided for. Yet, complicit and equally money hungry LFS willingly set up tanks for them with extremely poor livestock choices because they only want the money and they know that these clients of theirs don’t care about anything but money and superstition. Fair deal both ways, I guess, but would you rather that Yellow Tang end up in a proper 6’ tank (at least once it’s grown big) with a dedicated owner who knows that Tangs are herbivores and need that space, or in a 2’ tank in the office of a mafia boss? (Who has the same callous disregard for his fellow human beings)

When I lived in Vancouver as a kid, I often went to this dentist’s place in a mall called Parker Place. Right outside the dentist there was a very small SW tank (as in 10-15 gallons) with a Yellow Tang, Blue Hippo, and a Lionfish (forgot the species) all inside. At that time I knew nothing, and that place is no longer there, but if I went back and saw that tank today, I’d find it hard to contain a burning anger inside me.

Many people like to see animals perform, do tricks. There are competitions dedicated to dogs these days, and animals have long a part of circus repertoires dating back to the Romans all the way to Spanish bullfighters. In a way we’re also watching the animals in our tanks “perform” for us except that the performances they put on are none other than natural behaviors rather than us training or conditioning them to entertain us. We don’t try to kill them (unless we screw up) or have them do things against their will, all the while trying our best to provide for their needs and feeding them well.