Has Anyone tried Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium or Carbo-Calcium

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m surprised there’s an issue with stability, and do not think that is a general concern. What metabolizes it does not impact the released alk.

However, if you test before it is Metabolized, the total alk will count a fraction of the dosed organic and possibly confuse things a little bit.

 

[MrObscura]

I figured it's due to the rate of metabolism not being an absolute constant? And I'd still prefer a company knowing what's actually happening with their product.

Anyway, all I know is running kalk I was stable(within 0.1-0.3dkh, which I consider pretty good for kalk in the ato) for months and then when switching to all for reef Alk was all over the place despite starting with the recommended dose and trying to adjust accordingly for weeks.

At one point I stopped dosing all together and yet still saw a 1dkh spike 24 hours later.

I loved the idea of it and people have had success with it but for whatever reason it didn't work out for me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think ( but do not know with certainty) that with regular use, the rate of metabolism is fast and variability in the rate is not likely as much an issue as alk variability between doses.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

At least with calcium acetate, Habib of Salifert claimed it was fast enough to not accumulate.

 

[MrObscura]

All I know is I personally couldn't get stable parameters using it. And the alk was all over without rhyme or reason in relation to dosage.

Over the weeks I tried to dial it in there were 24 hour periods in which a certain dose would result in a drop in Alk over 24 hours, but other times a lower dose, or even no dose at all, would result in a spike.

 

[Orm Embar]

When I get my dosing setup running, I will have to check alk daily for a week and see what fluctuations, if any, I can detect . . . since I was previously using about 0.5 dKH per week, I suspect that for my 43 gallon system the fluctuations would be slight enough that my Salifert kit (+/- 0.3 dKH, presumably) won't reliably pick that up.

I did pick up a slightly used Kamoer X1 pump, so I just need to clean out my old kalk drip container, get some tubing, and trend my alk consumption in order to figure out my current dosing needs.

I will say that I WANT this to work - conceptually, calcium formate makes sense to me and requires only 1 container and pump. I haven't seen it induce precipitation of any visibly type when added (I wouldn't expect it to) or cause problems so far. Assuming that my Mag/trace element consumption is similar to what is being replaced by using All-In-Reef (and the companion Tropic Marin trace product which I have not tried), it's a simple regimen that appeals to me (simple - one container and dosing pump, one extra bottle of additives, and that's it).

 

[siggy]

Maybe only being a 10g played a role? Idk...

Kalk would be my choice.

 

[MrObscura]

Kalk would be my choice.

I was using kalk but figured dosing would be more precise do to not relying on evaporation.

Plus I like not having to worry about mixing up kalk and just dumping rodi in my ato when needed.

I'm trying to dial in b ionic right now.

 

[siggy]

I went threw 3 top off pumps running kalk that way. With a 10 gallon reef I think I would now use a dosing pump for topoff and one specifically for kalk. Seasonal evaporation was a challenge.

I'm trying to dial in b ionic right now.

Keep us posted and good luck

 

[Midrats]

I have used Litermeters as ato/kalkwasser dosers since the Nineties. It's easy to dial in the evaporation and make adjustments to the flow rate and concentration seasonally. When demand exceeds what the kalkwasser can provide, I just add some Bio Calcium.

 

[Orm Embar]

I'm not sure how to go about this, but I had a question for Lou Ekus (whom I assume is a Tropic Marin representative?) - when using All-For-Reef, my understanding is that it contains all of the trace elements from the A- Elements. Does that mean that you can/should use the K+ Elements with All-For-Reef, or is All-For-Reef sufficient in and of itself? Thanks!

@Lou Ekus

 

[Weevo]

Having problems with my carbocalcium powder not mixing up completely . Is this normal. Dont see how I can use this in a doser.

 

[Orm Embar]

I haven't tried the powder, but I'd think that it should completely dissolve. I would email tropic-marin (btw, All For Reef includes all trace elements apparently, to anser my own question as well)

 

[Ktran350]

I haven't tried the powder, but I'd think that it should completely dissolve. I would email tropic-marin (btw, All For Reef includes all trace elements apparently, to anser my own question as well)

So, if one uses or switch to the Carbocalcium they would also need to dose the k+ elements and the A- elements?

 

[Orm Embar]

So, if one uses or switch to the Carbocalcium they would also need to dose the k+ elements and the A- elements?

My understanding is that Carbocalcium is simply pure calcium formate (no magnesium or trace elements), so you would need to add those. For trace elements, I think that would be both the K+ and the A- elements if you're going with all Tropic Marin components.

I still need to see what my magnesium and calcium are, but the last I checked, my magnesium was fine but my calcium was low when I had the large alkalinity drop. I'm assuming that a balanced replacement with my alk back up into the 8-9 range has brought my calcium up to the mid 400's (presumably).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Having problems with my carbocalcium powder not mixing up completely . Is this normal. Dont see how I can use this in a doser.

You are mixing into RO/DI? It is not all dissolving? How much isn't dissolving? If it is just a tiny bit, I'd ignore it.

 

[Weevo]

You are mixing into RO/DI? It is not all dissolving? How much isn't dissolving? If it is just a tiny bit, I'd ignore it.

I gave it about another 20 min and shaking it turned out fine. We will see how it works. First time using this product or 1 part should I say...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I gave it about another 20 min and shaking it turned out fine. We will see how it works. First time using this product or 1 part should I say...

Sounds good.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Orm Embar]

Next update: I'm continuing to use All-For-Reef, which is working well for my tank. Alkalinity is stable when I add it based on consumption, no precipitation, no adverse effects on any corals.

My cespitularia is growing again since starting this, which I attribute to some trace element deficiency - it initially grew well in my tank, then stopped growing and started to wither over a period of months (I wasn't adding any trace elements, either by additives or partial water changes). Once I started using this, it started to grow again. I'm interpreting this as a trace element deficiency that was corrected by the All-For-Reef. Obviously, I should be doing more frequent partial water changes!

When (if?!) I get the doser set up tomorrow, I hope to check Mg/Ca along with alk to see if things are getting unbalanced (I'm hoping that the magnesium consumption is some fixed ratio off of Ca/alk consumption so I don't end up with an excess of magnesium. Deficiencies would be easier to deal with as I would just add magnesium).

 

[Orm Embar]

Update: doser has been running for almost a week and working well. I had lowballed the dosing (7.8 mL/day), so my alk dropped to 7.3 (450 Ca, 1440 Mg as well). My calcium has traditionally run 450-500, so I was replacing alkalinity only for a while.

Overall, I'm very happy with the product - it works, it's a balanced additive, I don't have to worry about magnesium or trace elements, and it doesn't precipitate at all.

I do wish that it were cheaper--I'm estimating my costs at roughly $15 monthly using 15 mL/day and $33/liter for buying a bottle. There is pure powdered CarboCalcium (calcium formate) which looks to be roughly a tenth of the cost ($33 to make 10 liters of solution, or about $1.50 monthly), but it doesn't include magnesium or trace elements. I wonder if Tropic Marin will be coming out with a powdered version of All-For-Reef; another option would be to manually add trace elements and magnesium (or buy a 4x doser for one part, magnesium, and 2 trace element bottles). I wonder if anyone has tried calcium formate plus Balling part C, or how you calculate the ratios of that. Edit: based on my superficial reading of the Balling Method, Part C isn't really recommended as a stand alone magnesium/trace element replacement to be used with calcium/alkalinity replacement, but rather as a part of the formal Balling Method only.

So . . . I guess the simplest options would be 1) continue using All-For-Reef, 2) change to powdered CarboCalcium and doing (more frequent than I currently do!) partial water changes to keep up with magnesium and trace elements, or 3) change to powdered CarboCalcium, add A- and K+ elements, and monitor magnesium with replacements as needed. C) seems to be cheaper (roughly $5/month plus magnesium every so often), but I will probably stick with A) for now as the convenience is really nice.

I am assuming that All-for-Reef won't under/overdose my tank on trace elements, and that magnesium will likewise remain stable. I should probably send off a Triton test or similar after several months to see how things are.

I hope that this is useful information for y'all.