Has Anyone tried Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium or Carbo-Calcium

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Reefr]

Update: doser has been running for almost a week and working well. I had lowballed the dosing (7.8 mL/day), so my alk dropped to 7.3 (450 Ca, 1440 Mg as well). My calcium has traditionally run 450-500, so I was replacing alkalinity only for a while.

Overall, I'm very happy with the product - it works, it's a balanced additive, I don't have to worry about magnesium or trace elements, and it doesn't precipitate at all.

I do wish that it were cheaper--I'm estimating my costs at roughly $15 monthly using 15 mL/day and $33/liter for buying a bottle. There is pure powdered CarboCalcium (calcium formate) which looks to be roughly a tenth of the cost ($33 to make 10 liters of solution, or about $1.50 monthly), but it doesn't include magnesium or trace elements. I wonder if Tropic Marin will be coming out with a powdered version of All-For-Reef; another option would be to manually add trace elements and magnesium (or buy a 4x doser for one part, magnesium, and 2 trace element bottles). I wonder if anyone has tried calcium formate plus Balling part C, or how you calculate the ratios of that. Edit: based on my superficial reading of the Balling Method, Part C isn't really recommended as a stand alone magnesium/trace element replacement to be used with calcium/alkalinity replacement, but rather as a part of the formal Balling Method only.

So . . . I guess the simplest options would be 1) continue using All-For-Reef, 2) change to powdered CarboCalcium and doing (more frequent than I currently do!) partial water changes to keep up with magnesium and trace elements, or 3) change to powdered CarboCalcium, add A- and K+ elements, and monitor magnesium with replacements as needed. C) seems to be cheaper (roughly $5/month plus magnesium every so often), but I will probably stick with A) for now as the convenience is really nice.

I am assuming that All-for-Reef won't under/overdose my tank on trace elements, and that magnesium will likewise remain stable. I should probably send off a Triton test or similar after several months to see how things are.

I hope that this is useful information for y'all.

Thank you, this is very much useful and appreciated!
What is the status today? Are you still happy with Carbo-Calcium? Are you dosing Mg by hand?
What about your Alk and Ca levels: are they stable? Do you see a need to sometimes adjust either Alk or Ca because one is off vs the other? (due to the fact that both are dosed together)

Cheers

 

[Orm Embar]

I haven't checked calcium or magnesium as much; my last testing that included those was 5/29 where my Ca was 450 and my Mg 1440 with an alk of 7.3; my alk is now running roughly at 9 (my dosing quantity is somewhere in the 10-13 mL/day range). I use All-For-Reef which includes Mg and trace elements; I attribute the trace supplementation to the rebounding of my cespitularia (was withering, after starting All For Reef it is now growing like a weed).

I should check all parameters again as it's been a month; with CarboCalcium, it would be a lot cheaper with the powder, but I really like the convenience of All For Reef (1 doser, 1 solution, and my consumption rates work out to around $13/month using All For Reef with the 1 liter bottles).

For cost reasons, I wish that there was a powdered All-For-Reef with a similar discount for needing to mix it yourself!

 

[Ktran350]

There was a video on BRS about the cost of 2part. Somewhere near the end there was a formula on how to mix CarboCalcium, K elements and A elements into one solution. Only thing missing is Mag. Here’s a screen shot

 

[Chad3407]

I read you can add 12g of bio mag to the carbo calcium solution. With that and the 8-1-1 ratio of carbo,k+,a- it is basically the same as all for reef. Just cheaper and a little more prep work.

 

[Chad3407]

Here's what I found

 

[Weevo]

What I have noticed is the carbocalcium calcified at the end of the dosing hose. Every 3-4 days I have to break it apart so it can dose . Even started to dose alittle less but more throughout the day to see if that would help but nothing. Might switch back to EVS.

 

[MrSkumfrog]

I haven't checked calcium or magnesium as much; my last testing that included those was 5/29 where my Ca was 450 and my Mg 1440 with an alk of 7.3; my alk is now running roughly at 9 (my dosing quantity is somewhere in the 10-13 mL/day range). I use All-For-Reef which includes Mg and trace elements; I attribute the trace supplementation to the rebounding of my cespitularia (was withering, after starting All For Reef it is now growing like a weed).

I should check all parameters again as it's been a month; with CarboCalcium, it would be a lot cheaper with the powder, but I really like the convenience of All For Reef (1 doser, 1 solution, and my consumption rates work out to around $13/month using All For Reef with the 1 liter bottles).

For cost reasons, I wish that there was a powdered All-For-Reef with a similar discount for needing to mix it yourself!

What size tank are you using the All-For-Reef on?
I have a RSR 425L which will be mostly softy, LPS and some Montipora with no acros. The convenience looks appealing.

 

[Orm Embar]

What size tank are you using the All-For-Reef on?
I have a RSR 425L which will be mostly softy, LPS and some Montipora with no acros. The convenience looks appealing.

43 gallon system

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What I have noticed is the carbocalcium calcified at the end of the dosing hose. Every 3-4 days I have to break it apart so it can dose . Even started to dose alittle less but more throughout the day to see if that would help but nothing. Might switch back to EVS.

It might just be dried material, rather than calcification. You might take some of the solids and let it sit in some RO/DI and see if it dissolves. The carbo calcium will dissolve. True calcification (calcium carbonate) won't.

 

[rarelyseriousb]

Good info

Here's what I found

Thanks for finding this. This seems like the holy grail of dosing. A 1 part solution that doses everything you may need. Won’t break the bank. And works for a majority of tank sizes.

 

[RajV]

Good info

Thanks for finding this. This seems like the holy grail of dosing. A 1 part solution that doses everything you may need. Won’t break the bank. And works for a majority of tank sizes.

Unfortunately most larger tanks are likely to consume disproportionately . Please check your consumption proportion before you decide on your dosing strategy

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Unfortunately most larger tanks are likely to consume disproportionately . Please check your consumption proportion before you decide on your dosing strategy

Why do you think "large" tanks consume alk and calcium disproportionally?

 

[RajV]

Why do you think "large" tanks consume alk and calcium disproportionally?

I meant that in a comparison to nano tanks . I have a total volume of 100g. I used bio calcium and the target measure for it is dkh. After a few weeks i realized my calcium was very high even though i tried to maintain a 9 dkh consistently. That led me to believe in my situation its not proportionate

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I meant that in a comparison to nano tanks . I have a total volume of 100g. I used bio calcium and the target measure for it is dkh. After a few weeks i realized my calcium was very high even though i tried to maintain a 9 dkh consistently. That led me to believe in my situation its not proportionate

It is usually proportionate (barring devices like sulfur denitrators, etc.), but it is not the same exact proportion that is in calcium formate, calcium acetate, or calcium hydroxide (limewater/kalkwasser). Use of these for extended periods will raise calcium. That's why I used a low calcium salt mix in my tank using limewater only.

The reason is that while calcium carbonate is exactly the same proportion, that isn't exactly what forms in seawater, where magnesium and to a much smaller extent, strontium, replace calcium in the calcium carbonate structure, reducing the demand for calcium relative to alkalinity.

A maker of a commercial product could deal with this by adding some sodium formate or acetate to the mix. i do not know if any of them do or not, however.

 

[RajV]

It is usually proportionate (barring devices like sulfur denitrators, etc.), but it is not the same exact proportion that is in calcium formate, calcium acetate, or calcium hydroxide (limewater/kalkwasser). Use of these for extended periods will raise calcium. That's why I used a low calcium salt mix in my tank using limewater only.

The reason is that while calcium carbonate is exactly the same proportion, that isn't exactly what forms in seawater, where magnesium and to a much smaller extent, strontium, replace calcium in the calcium carbonate structure, reducing the demand for calcium relative to alkalinity.

A maker of a commercial product could deal with this by adding some sodium formate or acetate to the mix. i do not know if any of them do or not, however.

I had read this observation in your article published earlier. Hence my suggestion was to test the underlying consumption , instead of assuming its magic holy Grail solution. Nothing wrong with the product though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK.

happy Reefing.

 

[rarelyseriousb]

Thanks for the input. I would dose according to tests but it seems like a good solution. Especially with water changes done frequently

 

[Weevo]

This is my experience with the powder version which is very cost efficient. It clogs my dosing line at the tip and the stuff that is just sitting at the bottom of the dosing container and when shaken you see that in the 3rd picture. When I'm done using what I have left and switch back to my EVS 2 part.

 

[Bramzor]

@Lou Ekus ,

Is it a known issue with the powder version that it clogs dosing lines and causes that white stuff in the dosing container?