Have Hydros lost their way?

[Sisterlimonpot]

Oh for sure, it was just interesting that Neptune merged with ecotech in PA but they aren't even utilizing their assembly lines here in the states. My guess is that these boards are so simple that turnkey manufacturing overseas is greatly cheaper than it would be to do in the states. Or there could be a line capacity issue in PA and adding new products to the line wouldn't be feasible. Gotta be careful with overseas manufacturing, you open yourself to counterfeit part risk since they control part sourcing and may not be as diligent in that process.

China is definitely the master of IP theft.

Many companies take part in that word play "assembled in America". I don't know when that became the norm.

I'm trying to think back, for over a decade I've been good friends with 2 of the 3 previous owners of ecotech. Circa 2012 we collaborated on a new vortech pump design. I hit it off with Justin and Tim, to the point that I try to go spend a few weeks each year hanging out in Pennsylvania with Tim at his house. Our friendship doesn't revolve around ecotech or the industry, we're just good buddies that share other common interests. During the last visit, Tim, who no longer works for aperture, took me to ecotech to visit with Justin.

All that to say that when I was there I was given an impromptu tour of the facility post merger. I wasn't particularly interested in a tour and mostly went along for the ride. I can say that on this particular day they had people on the assembly lines building both ecotech and Neptune components. I don't recall them assembling apex "brains" but did see them putting together eb832s. Surprisingly, me, being intimate with the insides of the eb832, I didn't pay any attention to the pcb design and if it changed since the last iteration of integrating meanwell psu's.

I do know that traditionally neptune circuitry revolved around 5v references for their logic and ecotech utilized 3.3v reference voltage.

I can't speak with authority but I'm under the impression that Curt was the driving force in circuit design with all things neptune and followed a more industrial design while ecotech employed engineers with a more modern approach. With the dos qd and mxm adopting the more modern 3.3v design and sleeker circuit that mirrored the ecotech and AI stuff.

In terms of electronic hardware, I can't speak smartly as to what they pulled in house and what they rely on China for. I'd speculate that everything has to make financial sense and if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I don't know what or if they plan to roll out a new generation apex. As of lately aperture is only interested in maximizing profits and that seems to revolve around rebranding existing products and expanding beyond reefing. But if a new apex is on the horizon, I would imagine they would try hard to do as much of the manufacturing in Pennsylvania and try to safeguard their IP.

 

[areefer01]

China is definitely the master of IP theft.

Many companies take part in that word play "assembled in America". I don't know when that became the norm.

I'm trying to think back, for over a decade I've been good friends with 2 of the 3 previous owners of ecotech. Circa 2012 we collaborated on a new vortech pump design. I hit it off with Justin and Tim, to the point that I try to go spend a few weeks each year hanging out in Pennsylvania with Tim at his house. Our friendship doesn't revolve around ecotech or the industry, we're just good buddies that share other common interests. During the last visit, Tim, who no longer works for aperture, took me to ecotech to visit with Justin.

All that to say that when I was there I was given an impromptu tour of the facility post merger. I wasn't particularly interested in a tour and mostly went along for the ride. I can say that on this particular day they had people on the assembly lines building both ecotech and Neptune components. I don't recall them assembling apex "brains" but did see them putting together eb832s. Surprisingly, me, being intimate with the insides of the eb832, I didn't pay any attention to the pcb design and if it changed since the last iteration of integrating meanwell psu's.

I do know that traditionally neptune circuitry revolved around 5v references for their logic and ecotech utilized 3.3v reference voltage.

I can't speak with authority but I'm under the impression that Curt was the driving force in circuit design with all things neptune and followed a more industrial design while ecotech employed engineers with a more modern approach. With the dos qd and mxm adopting the more modern 3.3v design and sleeker circuit that mirrored the ecotech and AI stuff.

In terms of electronic hardware, I can't speak smartly as to what they pulled in house and what they rely on China for. I'd speculate that everything has to make financial sense and if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I don't know what or if they plan to roll out a new generation apex. As of lately aperture is only interested in maximizing profits and that seems to revolve around rebranding existing products and expanding beyond reefing. But if a new apex is on the horizon, I would imagine they would try hard to do as much of the manufacturing in Pennsylvania and try to safeguard their IP.

How did the employees seem as you toured the facility? Pulse wise?

 

[Soggy Frito]

I run Hydros and my big complaint is how hard it is to figure out what you need. You go on the website and it’s just a giant sales pitch. No meat. Example how are you supposed to know you need a $$ terminator to get this module to work in your collective? I already bought your $$ bus cable. Make it clear what you need to run the system! And most retailers I find don’t know much about it.

And let’s not get into the product promotion without having an idea when you will sell it. Couple quick examples being
-light
-maven
-new auto feeder

 

[JeffB418]

I run Hydros and my big complaint is how hard it is to figure out what you need. You go on the website and it’s just a giant sales pitch. No meat. Example how are you supposed to know you need a $$ terminator to get this module to work in your collective? I already bought your $$ bus cable. Make it clear what you need to run the system! And most retailers I find don’t know much about it.

And let’s not get into the product promotion without having an idea when you will sell it. Couple quick examples being
-light
-maven
-new auto feeder

Auto feeder is out https://aquacave.com/hydros-drive-port-automatic-fish-feeder.html

 

[areefer01]

Auto feeder is out https://aquacave.com/hydros-drive-port-automatic-fish-feeder.html

Looks like the run of the mill China auto feeders like the fishnosh drums. The doors on these are not very good for mixed blends. Not knocking it as I have a similar complaint for Neptunes. What does this bring to the table?

I moved to Avast. Like a skimmer, a quality auto feeder is well worth the investment.

In my opinion.

 

[theclownshow]

You can always resort to building one yourself if you don’t like the price. This is 2026, everything is more expensive. Blunt im not, I just see things how they are.

Could I please ask, what is your proposed alternative?

There's not a lot of options for mainstream controllers outside of the two big players - Neptune and Hydros, and both seem to over inflate their cost, and lock you out of using generic components (proprietary connectors, etc.).

Reef-Pi is a great project, but I don't see many running a Reef-Pi controlled system these days. I am thrilled to see @Ranjib actively posting again. @Ranjib I love what you're doing with the Reef-Pi project, please continue to build Reef-Pi

Robo Tank takes a fair amount of DIY, but in no way limits the hardware you buy, or forces you to buy proprietary connectors at inflated price tags.

I'm not affiliated with Robo Tank, I'm just encouraging reefers to take a look at Robo Tank as an alternative to the mainstream offerings.

There was a time when the creator of Robo Tank was active here on R2R to answer questions, but I haven't seen him in a while. I do wish he'd come back. I can't even tag him any more, which means he may have cut ties with R2R completely; sad, I really liked him and his project.

What proprietary connectors does Hydros use? I’m building a 2 pump dosing pump to hook into a hydros launch and it is going to cost $30-$40 and uses standard aviation connectors. All of their connections use standard connectors

 

[Boehmtown]

Most of us were originally drawn to Hydros controllers because of their high quality at more affordable prices than other controllers. Over the years though, I think they've sorta lost sight of this. In June of 2024 Coralvue released the Hydros Sole, a continuous-duty dosing pump. This doser has a single head, but currently retails for $346 US. Compare this to other continuous-duty dosers like the Neptune DOS QD and GHL's Doser 2.2 Maxi, which are priced similarly ($450 and $369 US, respectively), but have two heads. Per head, that's around half the price compared to the Sole. Another example, just recently recently Coralvue announced another continuous doser—this time with two heads—named the Hydros Duet. This dosing pump is set to retail at $800 US, around double the cost of the aforementioned similar products on the market. Coralvue tries to justify this price by saying that they use "medical grade" dosing heads from Kamoer normally used in hospitals, but do we really need medical-grade dosing heads in the hobby?
In addition, a personal gripe of mine is that the only Hydros controller with 0-10v output for controlling pumps/lighting (besides the WaveEngine) is the X4, which does not have any salinity monitoring option. Coralvue also doesn't look like they will be releasing any controllers with both of these features anytime soon, so if one wants to both control their pumps and have salinity monitoring, they would have to buy an additional X3-S on top of the X4.

What's your guys' opinions on this?

I like the new additions. They are for sure expensive, but all their options are a choice to start building out your system, how you want (not how you want, with the salinity problem ) If I had all the money back I spent in reefing to start over, my first purchase might be the duet. Auto water change to start and switch to kalk and calcium reactor when it's time. I'm gonna need 2 continuous pumps eventually and it starts my controller build out.