Hawaii fish ban

[JayM]

Where are you paying 165???

Direct from Biota?

https://shop.thebiotagroup.com/collections/cultured-fish/products/hawaiian-yellow

 

[cdemoss01]

Direct from Biota?

https://shop.thebiotagroup.com/collections/cultured-fish/products/hawaiian-yellow

Interesting thank you! Does anybody think my marble wrasse will eat it if the yellow tang is small enough?

 

[Spare time]

Im sure there is but I am trying to save money, I got stuff coming up soon.

Understandable lol

 

[blecki]

Interesting thank you! Does anybody think my marble wrasse will eat it if the yellow tang is small enough?

Maybe if it's full size but you really want to keep the tang in a grow out tank for a while anyway.

 

[areefer01]

Where are you paying 165???

Directly from Biota. Normal size is $165 US and the larger sized is around $250. They are keeping them longer to grow out a bit more which is why they are higher.

 

[areefer01]

Interesting thank you! Does anybody think my marble wrasse will eat it if the yellow tang is small enough?

When in doubt, or if there is ever a question, then hold off. The Yellow Tang will be around 1 1/2 inch in size. I have a lot of fish that I've purchased directly from Biota and they are on the smaller side of things. When I think they are a bit too small I put them in my refugium to grow a bit.

Not sure if that is an option. Another option is to message Biota / Jake via their portal and ask if they know when the larger one may be ready. Sometimes they have an idea and can let you know.

 

[Zenonymous]

Have we gotten any updates on the Hawaii fish ban? Been looking for a yellow tang, and flame angel until recently when I learned about the ban. Anyone got any update?

I'm in Hawaii (oahu) and have yellow tangs if you need.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I'm in Hawaii (oahu) and have yellow tangs if you need. Just DM me.

That would be highly illegal but do as you wish.

 

[Zenonymous]

That would be highly illegal but do as you wish.

I've had my tangs before the ban and when I break down my tank, what else am I supposed to do with them? I'd rather them go to a good home. Am I not allowed to do that?

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I've had my tangs before the ban and when I break down my tank, what else am I supposed to do with them? I'd rather them fo to a good home. Am I not allowed to do that?

I have no idea what the law says in that case. I hope you can rehome them but for the law that might be a gray are since they can't distinguish yours from a wild caught one.

 

[albano]

I'm in Hawaii (oahu) and have yellow tangs if you need. Just DM me.

How many are available? What size?

 

[Debramb]

I've had my tangs before the ban and when I break down my tank, what else am I supposed to do with them? I'd rather them fo to a good home. Am I not allowed to do that?

Hi Hawaii! How great to live in paradise. If you have tangs, just a FYI, I recently learned that no fish, freshwater or saltwater wild caught or captive bred can ever be released back to nature. Because of risk of infection to native fish. I saw it on YouTube, Poloreef, I think, guy has 25,000 g in his house and a lab set up. He has exotic fish NO ONE in the world have.it’s the closest you’d ever come to an ocean at home. Great to post with you!
Debra

 

[nuxx Verified Sponsor]

Been out of the hobby for a while, Yellow prices are just mind blowing to me.

Used to be basically throw away fish.

 

[albano]

Used to be basically throw away fish.

Now, you can look like a high roller, when you throw them away!

;)

 

[areefer01]

Been out of the hobby for a while, Yellow prices are just mind blowing to me.

Price is subjective. They are available and that is what matters.

Used to be basically throw away fish.

I'm guessing you mean as it relates to the cost but it is still a rather ignorant comment. And probably why bans are starting to be put in place. They are not a commodity but rather a pet. When properly cared for live a very long time.

 

[litsoh]

I've had my tangs before the ban and when I break down my tank, what else am I supposed to do with them? I'd rather them fo to a good home. Am I not allowed to do that?

I would just be very careful with sending them out of the islands. As far as I know it's still illegal to sell them so if you get caught there might be some hefty fines. You'd be better off selling rehoming them to someone on island since that's a lot harder to track, etc.

 

[Tony Thompson]

There's definitely still collection for personal use going on, I have a feeling that they're cracking down more on the ones that collect to sell. Cause there are a number of people that bring home specimens all the time.

Now corals on the other hand are a different story, I heard from my LFS that there was a guy that harvested corals from the beaches and got slapped with a fine of around $8k. All of his tanks were seized as well, even those that did not house any corals whatsoever.

I have followed the whole process very closely. Below is my recollection. I have the full details but am writing from memory so there may be some errors.

The proposed ban never included a ban for collection for local people for their home aquariums. Neither did it propose a ban for Hawaii public aquarium use or export of aquaculture specimens.

The whole ban was centred around a point of law and a petition. The petitioners point of law was that DNLR where in contravention of the law in issuing permits without the relevant Environmental Impact Statement.

The EIS was completed but was rejected, a new EIS was submitted with restrictions on licence numbers and species. This was then submitted to the law makers.

Comments from the public where invited, the large number of comments submitted meant a delay in the public hearing.

Eventually the public hearing and vote was carried out. It is important to realise DNLR have no vote they simply issue the licences according to regulations.

The vote included representatives from two separate depts who are involved in setting regulations into law.

The vote went AEN Committee of Agriculture and Environment
3 against the ban 2 for the ban

WTL Committee of Water and Land
2 against the ban and 3 for the ban

As this forced a stalemate the bill was rejected, the ban did not succeed.


The DNLR where now legally able to issue new permits. However an injunction was caused by another point of law. That second point of law was rejected and the permits for ornamental fish collection can now be issued. These licences are to be issued under the new regulation and restrict to certain species and certain take numbers.

I am open to correction and can if needed access my records and clarify if needed.

 

[Biota_Marine Verified Sponsor]

Thank you to y'all with the incredibly kind words about our yellow tang and the photos of them grown up. We really appreciate it!

Have we gotten any updates on the Hawaii fish ban? Been looking for a yellow tang, and flame angel until recently when I learned about the ban. Anyone got any update?

We actually had a small batch of flame angelfish earlier this year. It's a species we hope to continue to work with but the larval period is pretty long so they were more on the expensive side. We have to start somewhere with that species though.

I am not paying it, that is just the retail price around here. I was just in two shops this last weekend and they were in stock with matching pricing. Site price is $165 but shipping hits for some folks. I am close enough I could get it for about $30 which isn't too bad, but the likely hood of it arriving alive with any time of day delivery option here in FL is not great. Sometimes we don't see UPS until 7pm and a fish in a hot tin box that late is never good. Best shipping is $132 for me which pretty much matches the store total.

Since we're also located in Florida UPS next day air which we recommend for our shipments should be relatively cheap and arrive to your location by 10:30 AM. The next day early is always super expensive is guaranteed before 8:30 AM so it's not really worth it for a few hours. We have an incredibly low DOA/DAA rate and cover the animals in the case of any losses even with UPS delays.

Additionally, if you're going to be at Aquashella next weekend we're going to be attending and bringing some yellow tang along with a few other species.

Which native is more ethical?

On the mainland a business house’s brood stock to breed captive bred fishes. They lobbied the government of Hawaii to prevent the native from catching and selling the same fishes.

Well maybe they didn’t but the discussion of ethics and capturing wildlife isn’t as clear of an issue as it is often portrayed.

What would a wild-caught broodstock fish say if you asked it if it missed swimming in the ocean? (What is this crazy human being talking about?) :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

Those translucent tangs are amazing and I fear that they will be banned next, right after they get finished banning aquatic life from the wild sources. Cattle, pets, even breathing are optional if it’s an ethical choice that can be imposed upon others.

I just wanted to touch on the way some of this is worded. The Biota facility that breeds the yellow tang is in Hawaii on Oahu and we are not involved in any government lobbying. We were funding the research of yellow tang and breeding yellow tang prior to the closure because we believed it was a popular and important fish for the aquarium trade that didn't have a captive-bred alternative. We increased production when the industry demanded it.

The best that I can tell, is that HI courts have dismissed all litigation and that the Dept can issue permits but have not yet. HI House Bill was introduced for a permanent ban - it failed. No permits from the Dept yet. I have no idea what is actually happening now or the reason for any delay.

I saw a proposed white list with yearly catch limits for the top fish. 7 permits to be issued with limits for all seven collectors. I cannot find it right now.

I have a Hawaii Yellow tang that is older than a kid who is in college. If these Biota fish can make 10-20 years, then well done. I have been around freshwater too long to see what was thought to be a breakthrough in captive breeding die young, develop diseases, not breed, etc. To me, verdict is still out on Biota Yellows but I am hoping for the absolute best.

The first of the captive-bred yellow tang are nearing around 10 years and going strong either in homes or public aquariums (most of the first batches went to public aquariums). We also have some of the F1s in Hawaii being used for new broodstock that are currently around 8+ years old.

With freshwater much of that happens because of rapid genetic bottlenecking due to inbreeding but since yellow tang take so long to reach sexual maturity and much of our offspring is F1 or F2 we shouldn't see anything that isn't genetically identical to wild yellow tang for decades.

Been out of the hobby for a while, Yellow prices are just mind blowing to me.

Used to be basically throw away fish.

I think that's one of the big problems because when they were cheap many hobbyists and people in the industry saw them as disposable and so they weren't cared for properly.

 

[litsoh]

For what it's worth, unless you're doing things in such a way that you will obviously get caught you'll never have any trouble collecting specimens for your personal tank. At least for residents.

I liken it to the fireworks "ban" in Hawaii. If you want any evidence of the ban not working at all, look up videos of Hawaii on New Years. Every one of those fireworks going off were illegally shipped here to the islands. The cops pretty much don't care (and are most likely also popping fireworks as well). So as long as you're not blatantly obvious about getting a YT, etc then you can get away with it.

 

[BZOFIQ]

You can still get both of these fish. Flame angels are collected elsewhere. The biota yellow tangs are a better alternative to wild caught as well.

More expensive does not make a better choice.