Heaters — Finnex or BRS?

[lafarrow]

I have 2 600W BRS heaters running to an Inkbird controller - controller is through a security socket that if the heat goes too high kills the socket. I have 1800 liters and went with two heaters on opposite side of sump - temp has been very steady

 

[mike550]

what wattage are you looking at?

I have a 120G tank so I’d be looking for two heaters that couldn’t heat the by themselves but together have the capacity. So Finnex or BRS would proabaly be two 300W heaters.

 

[TexanCanuck]

Lots of great discussion, I'll try not repeat all of the great points but add a few things:

1) I am sure everyone understands this but just to be safe - when sizing a heater don't go by just the display tank volume ... go by the TOTAL water volume (including sump)

2) The Neptune EB832 (released in 2016) uses power relays that have obtained ETL certification for continuous on/off cycling. I know their earlier products were not tested to this level, so I think many people's reservations about using the energy bar for controlling heaters is a hang-over from prior generation products. Like many folks here, I have been using straight heating elements switched by my EB832 for close to 5 years continuously without problem (I've changed heating elements several times, but never had to replace an EB832 ... knock on wood)

3) I too use two heaters for my 130g display (140g total running volume including my sump). I have a 200W BRS heater as my "primary" and a 300W BRS as my "backup". My logic in sizing the primary heater to only 50% of the water volume was that in case the EB832 did fail in the ON position, the heater would not be able to get me into serious trouble fast, and can count on the backup heater to kick in if the house gets abnormally cold and it can't keep up by itself. The backup heater, on the other hand, is capable of heating the tank by itself.

4) In direct answer to the OP's question, there are some basic differences between the BRS heating elements and the Finnex product (although both are more than capable products)

Rated tank size - For the same power rating, the BRS heating elements are rated for a much larger water volume (example: a 300W BRS element is rated for 100 gallons, while the same size Finnex is only rated for 40 to 80 gallons)

Heating Element Guards - the Finnex heating elements come with a plastic guard to avoid livestock or other equipment from coming into direct contact with the heating surface, while this is not an option for the BRS element. (PERSONAL NOTE - I hate the plastic heating guard and think it's just 1 more thing in my sump to trap detritus and require cleaning)

Mounting arrangements - both products are suction-cup mounted, but on the FInnex element the suction cups attach to the plastic guard (and thus you can't mount the element without the guard) while the BRS element uses plastic clips to attach the suction cups directly to the heating tube (again, in my opinion, making the mounting arrangement "cleaner")

Range - the BRS units provide options at 100W, 200W, 300W and 600W while the Finnex units are 300W, 500W or 800W. So depending on your total water volume, you may lean towards one brand or the other

Size - The BRS units all use the same 10" x 1" tube for the three smaller sizes and a 14" x 1" tube for the 600W unit. The Finnex units have a different form factor for each size - 10", 14" and a whopping 16.5", respectively). Also, the BRS units are simply a straight tube with a very slightly larger cap at the cord end, while the Finnex units have a larger "bulb" shape at BOTH ends.

Power Cord - the BRS units come with a 6' power cord while Finnex provide a 4' power cord

Using my system as an example, and following the manufacturer's guidelines for each product, I would have the following options for my 50% + 100% heater configuration:

BRS - 200W heater @ 10" long + 300W heater @ 10" long = $47.99+$49.99 = $97.98

FInnex - 300W heater @ 10" long + 500W heater @ 14" long = $38.99+$45.99 = $84.98

BOTTOM LINE - both of these are great units and you won't go wrong picking either one. However, while the BRS units will cost you slightly more they will give you a slightly smaller form factor and appear "neater" in your sump (my opinion).

hope this helps!

 

[RedReefer]

Neither. Hygger smart PTC heater.

 

[ccurnick]

Get the IM Helio.

It’s awesome.

 

[ca1ore]

The BRS titanium heating tubes are made by Schego, a German company. I’ve not used one, but they have a pretty good reputation, finnex equivalent certainly. I’d be less sanguine about the BRS controller, pretty clearly the same OEM as Inkbird of which I am not a fan.

Resistive heating is resistive heating, so as long as both the BRS/schego and Finnex tubes are actually 300 watts, they should offer the same capacity. Maybe the finnex are rated for imperial gallons LOL.

 

[mike550]

Lots of great discussion, I'll try not repeat all of the great points but add a few things:

1) I am sure everyone understands this but just to be safe - when sizing a heater don't go by just the display tank volume ... go by the TOTAL water volume (including sump)

2) The Neptune EB832 (released in 2016) uses power relays that have obtained ETL certification for continuous on/off cycling. I know their earlier products were not tested to this level, so I think many people's reservations about using the energy bar for controlling heaters is a hang-over from prior generation products. Like many folks here, I have been using straight heating elements switched by my EB832 for close to 5 years continuously without problem (I've changed heating elements several times, but never had to replace an EB832 ... knock on wood)

3) I too use two heaters for my 130g display (140g total running volume including my sump). I have a 200W BRS heater as my "primary" and a 300W BRS as my "backup". My logic in sizing the primary heater to only 50% of the water volume was that in case the EB832 did fail in the ON position, the heater would not be able to get me into serious trouble fast, and can count on the backup heater to kick in if the house gets abnormally cold and it can't keep up by itself. The backup heater, on the other hand, is capable of heating the tank by itself.

4) In direct answer to the OP's question, there are some basic differences between the BRS heating elements and the Finnex product (although both are more than capable products)

Rated tank size - For the same power rating, the BRS heating elements are rated for a much larger water volume (example: a 300W BRS element is rated for 100 gallons, while the same size Finnex is only rated for 40 to 80 gallons)

Heating Element Guards - the Finnex heating elements come with a plastic guard to avoid livestock or other equipment from coming into direct contact with the heating surface, while this is not an option for the BRS element. (PERSONAL NOTE - I hate the plastic heating guard and think it's just 1 more thing in my sump to trap detritus and require cleaning)

Mounting arrangements - both products are suction-cup mounted, but on the FInnex element the suction cups attach to the plastic guard (and thus you can't mount the element without the guard) while the BRS element uses plastic clips to attach the suction cups directly to the heating tube (again, in my opinion, making the mounting arrangement "cleaner")

Range - the BRS units provide options at 100W, 200W, 300W and 600W while the Finnex units are 300W, 500W or 800W. So depending on your total water volume, you may lean towards one brand or the other

Size - The BRS units all use the same 10" x 1" tube for the three smaller sizes and a 14" x 1" tube for the 600W unit. The Finnex units have a different form factor for each size - 10", 14" and a whopping 16.5", respectively). Also, the BRS units are simply a straight tube with a very slightly larger cap at the cord end, while the Finnex units have a larger "bulb" shape at BOTH ends.

Power Cord - the BRS units come with a 6' power cord while Finnex provide a 4' power cord

Using my system as an example, and following the manufacturer's guidelines for each product, I would have the following options for my 50% + 100% heater configuration:

BRS - 200W heater @ 10" long + 300W heater @ 10" long = $47.99+$49.99 = $97.98

FInnex - 300W heater @ 10" long + 500W heater @ 14" long = $38.99+$45.99 = $84.98

BOTTOM LINE - both of these are great units and you won't go wrong picking either one. However, while the BRS units will cost you slightly more they will give you a slightly smaller form factor and appear "neater" in your sump (my opinion).

hope this helps!

Thanks for your really helpful response. As to your point 3, are both heaters controlled by you EB832 or is your backup heater running through its own controller?

 

[TexanCanuck]

Yes ... BOTH of my heaters are controlled by my EB832.

I absolutely understand the logic of putting a second controller in between the heating element and the EB832, with the thermostat set HIGHER than the Apex, as a means of providing a fail-safe in case the EB832 fails in the ON position. However, I think the combination of sizing the primary heater to only 50% of the rated capacity and using the Apex's built-in alarm function makes the risk manageable. I can count on my Apex to send me a warning by email if the temp exceeds target, so I just don't see think the second controller is worth my time and money.

In case it helps, with my total of 140 gal water volume, and keeping my house at around 70 degrees, here is what my temp trace looks like:

Notice that:

A) the total variation in temperature from the lowest-low to the highest-high is only 0.5 degrees .. .usually the temperature range is only 0.3 degrees

B) Despite the above, my primary heater (again, a 200W BRS unit ... shown in BLUE) comes on and stays on for about 20 to 30 min, and then goes off and stays off for 30 to 60 min (depending on time of day and ambient temp in the room around it)

C) Over the three day period shown, the backup heater (a 300W BRS unit ... shown in GREEN) only came on ONCE, and that was only for 10 min.

SO ... I'm just one person with one set of experiences ... so take it for what it's worth!

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I'm running a 300W finex with out thermostat, plugged into an aqualogic controller (rebranded ranco) backed up by the apex.

The aqualogic controller is over 10 years now. The finex heater is about 4.5

Ryan himself has said that him having the temp differential set at .1 is probably what killed the eb832 socket. .5 to 1 degree should be absolutely fine.

I have mine set to 1 degree overall

 

[KStatefan]

I’m not sure but if you contact manufacture I’m sure they will tell you not to run a heater 24/7 and not think your gunna have problems

Finnex does not know what duty cycle their heaters are designed for.

My experience with restive wire heaters in industrial setting are that when they are at stedy state operating temp they runever. Normally burn out when being powered one.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I’m gunna continue to follow this so in 6 months I can read about the house fire set from a heater running for 6 months straight.

 

[KStatefan]

I’m gunna continue to follow this so in 6 months I can read about the house fire set from a heater running for 6 months straight.

What house fire?

 

[mike550]

Yes ... BOTH of my heaters are controlled by my EB832.

I absolutely understand the logic of putting a second controller in between the heating element and the EB832, with the thermostat set HIGHER than the Apex, as a means of providing a fail-safe in case the EB832 fails in the ON position. However, I think the combination of sizing the primary heater to only 50% of the rated capacity and using the Apex's built-in alarm function makes the risk manageable. I can count on my Apex to send me a warning by email if the temp exceeds target, so I just don't see think the second controller is worth my time and money.

In case it helps, with my total of 140 gal water volume, and keeping my house at around 70 degrees, here is what my temp trace looks like:

Notice that:

A) the total variation in temperature from the lowest-low to the highest-high is only 0.5 degrees .. .usually the temperature range is only 0.3 degrees

B) Despite the above, my primary heater (again, a 200W BRS unit ... shown in BLUE) comes on and stays on for about 20 to 30 min, and then goes off and stays off for 30 to 60 min (depending on time of day and ambient temp in the room around it)

C) Over the three day period shown, the backup heater (a 300W BRS unit ... shown in GREEN) only came on ONCE, and that was only for 10 min.

SO ... I'm just one person with one set of experiences ... so take it for what it's worth!

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I need to think this through and of course if I opt for the BRS heaters I’ll have to wait a bit. Sorry @((FORDTECH)) you might need to wait a bit longer for a house fire.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I need to think this through and of course if I opt for the BRS heaters I’ll have to wait a bit. Sorry @((FORDTECH)) you might need to wait a bit longer for a house fire.

Lol Obviously I’m not saying I hope for this I’m just saying I definitely would not do it. Notice how through the whole thread I kept repeating myself and not one other person said they run their heaters 24 seven you should think about that before you do have issues. Hopefully you don’t and good luck

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Ask @Randy Holmes-Farley what he feels about running brs heater 24/7 maybe he has some insite.

 

[ksed]

Lol Obviously I’m not saying I hope for this I’m just saying I definitely would not do it. Notice how through the whole thread I kept repeating myself and not one other person said they run their heaters 24 seven you should think about that before you do have issues. Hopefully you don’t and good luck

Give post 12 a read

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Give post 12 a read

Hmm ok so that’s 1

 

[mike550]

Yes ... BOTH of my heaters are controlled by my EB832.

I absolutely understand the logic of putting a second controller in between the heating element and the EB832, with the thermostat set HIGHER than the Apex, as a means of providing a fail-safe in case the EB832 fails in the ON position. However, I think the combination of sizing the primary heater to only 50% of the rated capacity and using the Apex's built-in alarm function makes the risk manageable. I can count on my Apex to send me a warning by email if the temp exceeds target, so I just don't see think the second controller is worth my time and money.

In case it helps, with my total of 140 gal water volume, and keeping my house at around 70 degrees, here is what my temp trace looks like:

Notice that:

A) the total variation in temperature from the lowest-low to the highest-high is only 0.5 degrees .. .usually the temperature range is only 0.3 degrees

B) Despite the above, my primary heater (again, a 200W BRS unit ... shown in BLUE) comes on and stays on for about 20 to 30 min, and then goes off and stays off for 30 to 60 min (depending on time of day and ambient temp in the room around it)

C) Over the three day period shown, the backup heater (a 300W BRS unit ... shown in GREEN) only came on ONCE, and that was only for 10 min.

SO ... I'm just one person with one set of experiences ... so take it for what it's worth!

I'm really starting to think about your idea. I can envision the Apex coding for your Primary Heater, but for your Backup is it set to go on at a lower temp than your Primary? It looks like there is a temp dip when your Backup triggers.

Maybe easier to simply say, "Hey -- I really like this idea! What are your temp settings for Primary and Backup?" Hah!

Thanks @TexanCanuck

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I'm really starting to think about your idea. I can envision the Apex coding for your Primary Heater, but for your Backup is it set to go on at a lower temp than your Primary? It looks like there is a temp dip when your Backup triggers.

Maybe easier to simply say, "Hey -- I really like this idea! What are your temp settings for Primary and Backup?" Hah!

Thanks @TexanCanuck

Yea you set the back up heater to turn on at a lower temp usually 1-2 degree less and turn off at same temp. This way if primary fails or needs little extra back up turns on. Also make sure to have a text alarm to notify you that temp fell that 1-2 degree lower then normal so you can intervene. This is exactly how I do it on both my 300 gallon systems. Except for ultimate back up and redundancy I use 2 separate circuits from fuse panel with an energy bar on each with heater on each this way if 1 breaker or gfi pop still have separate circuit controlling other

 

[TexanCanuck]

I'm really starting to think about your idea. I can envision the Apex coding for your Primary Heater, but for your Backup is it set to go on at a lower temp than your Primary? It looks like there is a temp dip when your Backup triggers.

Maybe easier to simply say, "Hey -- I really like this idea! What are your temp settings for Primary and Backup?" Hah!

Thanks @TexanCanuck

LOL ... no problem.

Here is the code for both my heaters ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MAIN HEATER (200W)

Fallback OFF
If TMP_DT < 78.0 Then ON
If TMP_DT > 78.2 Then OFF
If Output LeftAndRight = ON Then OFF
If TMP_DT < 70.0 Then OFF

AUXILIARY HEATER (300W)

Fallback OFF
If TMP_DT < 77.8 Then ON
If TMP_DT > 78.0 Then OFF
If Output LeftAndRight = ON Then OFF
If TMP_DT < 70.0 Then OFF

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Notes:
- the line "If Output LeftAndRight = ON Then OFF" refers to a virtual outlet I created that turns ON if both my left and right return pumps are OFF ... the logic here was that I don't want the heaters running if there is no water flowing through the sump, since my temperature probe is actually in the overflow of my display tank

- the line "If TMP_DT < 70.0 Then OFF" is a safety check I added that turns off the heaters if the temp drops below 70 ... the logic here was that if the temperature drops that far, there must be a catastrophic failure somewhere so I might as well turn off the heaters to avoid frying them out!

- there are a lot of people who have told me not to set the temp limits so close together (in my case, I use a window of only 0.2 degrees). While I think that is certainly true if you were using a single heater that was sized to manage your whole tank on it's own, in my case since the main heater is clearly NOT big enough to heat the whole tank it really isn't a problem. My heater only comes on about once every couple of hours and when it turns on it runs for about 30 to 40 mins ... so I'm not getting the rapid cycling of power supply that would normally be of concern.

Hope this helps!