Help Identifying Which Dino This Is (PLEASE)

[rhpmiller]

Hi all,

My tank is about a year and three months old and I got dinos for the first time--bound to happen at some point. I think the clear culprit is that I let my nutrients bottom out.

I'm in the process of dosing and feeding more to raise the nitrate and phosphate. However, I also wanted to identify the type of dino, to better understand the path I should take to beating it.

I'm using the dino identifying PDF, from the Dino Identification Guide on R2R, but I'm stuck between which one I actually have.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

Apologies for the picture and video quality--tough to steady your cell phone camera while looking through a microscope. Ha.

In the tank, it looks like diatoms and mats over parts of my sand and the occasional rock island. It's not super mucus-y, nor has long strands and bubbles. And based on the pictures, I'm thinking it's either Amphidinium (Large-Cell) or Prorocentrum--what i'm leaning towards, due to the circular structure in the middle of the cell.

Can y'all please help me identify which type of dino it is?

 

[Idoc]

Looks like Prorocentrum to me.

 

[rhpmiller]

Looks like Prorocentrum to me.

That's unfortunately what I was thinking too.

Was thinking about doing the method below from another thread (credit to @vetteguy53081) , since I don't have a UV sterilizer. Does anyone else have any thoughts on other methods for this type of dino?

• Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
• Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
• During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
• Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
• Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[saltyhog]

Nope, those are LCA. I recommend silicate dosing (water glass) to elicit a competing diatom bloom, keeping nutrients up (NO3 in the 5-10 range, PO4 in the 0.06-0.1 range), dosing phyto regularly, and avoiding high iron content salts, amino acid dosing.

 

[rhpmiller]

Nope, those are LCA. I recommend silicate dosing (water glass) to elicit a competing diatom bloom, keeping nutrients up (NO3 in the 5-10 range, PO4 in the 0.06-0.1 range), dosing phyto regularly, and avoiding high iron content salts, amino acid dosing.

Can you help me understand why you think it's LCA vs. Prorocentrum? I just want to be sure I take the right approach.

 

[saltyhog]

Can you help me understand why you think it's LCA vs. Prorocentrum? I just want to be sure I take the right approach.

In your picture you can actually see the "beak" on a couple...the ones circled in green. On others (circled in red) you can see two slanted dark lines near the front of the cell that are part of the beak structure and seen only in LCA. Additionally there is some mild asymmetry of the cell near the front. Prorocentrum are almost perfectly symmetrical.

 

[bvanfish]

Amphidinium is my guess. If you look at my thread I think I have the dreaded Dinos. People posted really good resources. I’m about 2.5 weeks into fighting them and it is going in A very positive direction

 

[GuppyHJD]

If you have Facebook, join Mack's reef...Dinoflagellates support group! . Mack and team are excellent at identifying and treating Dinos.
LCA, SCA and Prorocentrum are all treated the same - dose silicates to induce a diatom bloom, keep nitrates and phosphates elevated, dose phyto and copepods.
Good luck

 

[Uncle99]

Nope, those are LCA. I recommend silicate dosing (water glass) to elicit a competing diatom bloom, keeping nutrients up (NO3 in the 5-10 range, PO4 in the 0.06-0.1 range), dosing phyto regularly, and avoiding high iron content salts, amino acid dosing.

+1
This recipe worked well for me.
30 days gone, have never returned in 3 years now.
Hydrogen peroxide did not work great for me, thinned my Digis, and while it killed the Dino, just came back.

 

[bvanfish]

If you have Facebook, join Mack's reef...Dinoflagellates support group! . Mack and team are excellent at identifying and treating Dinos.
LCA, SCA and Prorocentrum are all treated the same - dose silicates to induce a diatom bloom, keep nitrates and phosphates elevated, dose phyto and copepods.
Good luck

This is almost exactly what I am doing and it’s working great. I also have been dosing MB7 though. Lowered my intensity, lowered my hours on, and only blues as well.

 

[rhpmiller]

Thank you all so much! I'll get started on this and update in a few days. Fingers crossed

 

[saltyhog]

Thank you all so much! I'll get started on this and update in a few days. Fingers crossed

Be patient, it's not a quick fix. Let us know if there are other questions.

 

[rhpmiller]

In your picture you can actually see the "beak" on a couple...the ones circled in green. On others (circled in red) you can see two slanted dark lines near the front of the cell that are part of the beak structure and seen only in LCA. Additionally there is some mild asymmetry of the cell near the front. Prorocentrum are almost perfectly symmetrical.

Interesting. I thought the pseudo-nucleus dot in the middle on all of them was a sure trait that they were Prorocentrum.

 

[saltyhog]

Interesting. I thought the pseudo-nucleus dot in the middle on all of them was a sure trait that they were Prorocentrum.

No, the central vacuole can be present in LCA as well. Even seen it in some SCA though not as well defined. Some Prorocentrum don't have it visible.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I too think prorocentrum. Its least common but also colonizes quickly

 

[rhpmiller]

Well, regardless of if it's Prorocentrum or LCA, it seems like elevating my nutrients, and dosing cilicates and MB7 are a standard and effective way to treat both. So i'll start with those and be patient.

 

[saltyhog]

Well, regardless of if it's Prorocentrum or LCA, it seems like elevating my nutrients, and dosing cilicates and MB7 are a standard and effective way to treat both. So i'll start with those and be patient.

That is true, treatment is pretty much the same. I would add dosing phyto frequently to that list.

One difference is that Prorocentrum can have some level of toxicity, where as LCA generally isn't toxic at all....just an eye sore. I assure you, this is LCA.

 

[rhpmiller]

That is true, treatment is pretty much the same. I would add dosing phyto frequently to that list.

One difference is that Prorocentrum can have some level of toxicity, where as LCA generally isn't toxic at all....just an eye sore. I assure you, this is LCA.

When you say dosing phyto frequently, like multiple times a day? I'm dosing 1mL/day for the past 7 days.

Biggest issue for me is getting my phosphates up. Took out my GFO two days ago and have been dosing 2mL of NeoPhos for a 20g nano tank and it's still reading 0.0 for the past few days. Might need to up it.

 

[saltyhog]

When you say dosing phyto frequently, like multiple times a day? I'm dosing 1mL/day for the past 7 days.

Biggest issue for me is getting my phosphates up. Took out my GFO two days ago and have been dosing 2mL of NeoPhos for a 20g nano tank and it's still reading 0.0 for the past few days. Might need to up it.

I would just dose daily but you could increase the dose gradually to 4 ml. Rock and substrate are going to absorb some PO4. When they are "saturated" the level will rise suddenly. Monitor closely so you can recognize that. Don't be afraid to up the dose if you're monitoring it closely.

 

[Kmst80]

I bought myself a 5 micron filter sock that is meant for irrigation but perfect for this. I hang it in the sump and siphon the dinos from the main tank into the sock twice a week. I am hoping in doing that it nocks them back enough to help other algae to get ahead . Should see the brown crap in the sock afterwards.