Help needed, losing corals fast!

[Morpheosz]

Witch salt mix are you using?

Tropic Marin Pro is what I currently have in my mixing garbage can but I started the tank with Red Sea Coral Pro so that's most of what's in there at this point.

 

[Morpheosz]

Hello,

This is Frank from Frag farm, sorry to hear about your issues going on. Let’s see if we can tackle it in stages.
First, are you currently running a carbon to neutralize toxic warfare in a mixed reef tank?
Second, from reading your prior comment, it seems like you put a lot in the tank within a three and half month period. When it comes to reefing stability is key, and slow and steady wins the race. If this is an emergency, I recommend you send your water out for an ICP test, but if you want a quick solution I would run a poly filter in case there is toxic metal in there. It won’t hurt to run the filter.
Third, please check your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates.
Good luck

Thanks Frank. I was running a big reactor full of carbon until a few days ago when I dosed some fluconazole for bryopsis so it has been offline for 2 days.

I have my water out for an ICP test and it should be posted any day now, they confirmed receipt 4 days ago.

I will give the poly filter a go, that's a good suggestion. I assume it pulls things out that carbon will not?

Nitrates are 3.7 per Hanna. I don't have ammonia or nitrites test kit.

 

[Morpheosz]

125mg pill diluted in small amount of tank water. Dose after lights out. Remove carbon but skimmer can run. 3 doses over 6 days then 20% water change. I have an 80g total system

Do you know what product / brand you used?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens, and decreasing the production of antimicrobials by symbiotic bacteria in the coral mucus, thereby facilitating the growth of opportunistic and potentially pathogenic bacteria.

Some possible triggers of infection are:
- Alkalinity spike or sudden change in alk or running low often
- Temperature spike or swings
- Salinity spike or sudden change
- Bacteria such as Philaster Guamense
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- immature tank
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

 

[Morpheosz]

Stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens, and decreasing the production of antimicrobials by symbiotic bacteria in the coral mucus, thereby facilitating the growth of opportunistic and potentially pathogenic bacteria.

Some possible triggers of infection are:
- Alkalinity spike or sudden change in alk or running low often
- Temperature spike or swings
- Salinity spike or sudden change
- Bacteria such as Philaster Guamense
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

Thanks for the tips. Definitely no temp or alk swings. Temp has been rock solid 78 +/- .5, alk has been 8.0 +/- .3. As I mentioned earlier, salinity crept up to 37 or so a month back and I lowered it and found today it was still around 36 so I lowered it some more, but no dramatic swings in the last couple weeks.

Sounds like the consensus is infection of some sort, maybe I'll try the cipro mentioned above.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Tropic Marin Pro is what I currently have in my mixing garbage can but I started the tank with Red Sea Coral Pro so that's most of what's in there at this point.

WHICH Tropic Marine Pro? German or Turkish?

 

[Swbvegas]

I'm surprised no one has given this answer yet.. but you added way too much way too fast. You have an immature tank regardless of what you're doing to it and adding that many coral and fish is going to cause a variety of issues. At this point you're just going to be putting band-aids on and losing things slowly. I would suggest removing half of your stock and praying for some stabilization.

Have you recently changed your flow rate? Do you notice any of the fish seeming stressed out or sick? Is it just the coral?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm surprised no one has given this answer yet.. but you added way too much way too fast. You have an immature tank regardless of what you're doing to it and adding that many coral and fish is going to cause a variety of issues. At this point you're just going to be putting band-aids on and losing things slowly. I would suggest removing half of your stock and praying for some stabilization

Frank did address this in post 13, and in a much nicer way

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm surprised no one has given this answer yet.. but you added way too much way too fast. You have an immature tank regardless of what you're doing to it and adding that many coral and fish is going to cause a variety of issues. At this point you're just going to be putting band-aids on and losing things slowly. I would suggest removing half of your stock and praying for some stabilization.

Have you recently changed your flow rate? Do you notice any of the fish seeming stressed out or sick? Is it just the coral?

That was mentioned on my list
Tank stabilized somewhat but not matured

 

[Lavey29]

Do you know what product / brand you used?

I ordered online from alivet

 

[JaimeAdams]

I use 2 of the 500mg Cipro pills in my 80gal tank (it has a sump). I imagine that it is 100 total gallons. I do it maybe once a month.

 

[Lavey29]

I use 2 of the 500mg Cipro pills in my 80gal tank (it has a sump). I imagine that it is 100 total gallons. I do it maybe once a month.

How long have you been doing this

 

[MaxTremors]

I have to agree that it’s most likely just tank immaturity. Regardless of whether you added some rock from another tank or have coralline growing, a 3 month old tank just isn’t mature, it doesn’t have a diverse and balanced biome. My advice would be to wait for the ICP test results, hold off on dosing anything but a basic two part and do 20% weekly water changes. I do not think you have some widespread bacterial infection affecting multiple different species, beyond brown jelly disease, I’m not even sure such a thing exists (brown jelly does not present as slow tissue recession). I don’t say this to call you out, but it seems like you’ve glossed over the few people that have mentioned tank maturity and have instead focused on suggestions that involve dosing something. IMO, you don’t need to dose anything, you need to slow down and give your tank time to mature. Adding 40+ frags and 12 fish in the first 2-3 months is just moving way, way too fast.

 

[fulltang]

Double check if you have Turkish made Tropic Marin Pro just to be safe

 

[Mr.tank]

Also look like it could be flat worms eating the acros

 

[Scoral]

What kind of animals did you add? Anything with a taste for coral? As far as tank maturity goes, 8 dkh today is the same as 8dkh in 6 months. If the tank is successfully completing its nitrogen cycle, and parameters are stable, then it shouldn't matter how long its been operating. I would not start throwing a bunch of chemicals at the tank.

 

[Dburr1014]

I was running the larger BRS reactor full of BRS carbon. I wondered if I didn't pull too much out, but still seemed like a radical shift for a deficiency. What are you thinking?

I was thinking possible Coral Warfare, aerosol sprays near the tank getting in, perfumes, ect...
Carbon would help.
A pad for heavy metals as others said also.

 

[Dburr1014]

I have to agree that it’s most likely just tank immaturity. Regardless of whether you added some rock from another tank or have coralline growing, a 3 month old tank just isn’t mature, it doesn’t have a diverse and balanced biome. My advice would be to wait for the ICP test results, hold off on dosing anything but a basic two part and do 20% weekly water changes. I do not think you have some widespread bacterial infection affecting multiple different species, beyond brown jelly disease, I’m not even sure such a thing exists (brown jelly does not present as slow tissue recession). I don’t say this to call you out, but it seems like you’ve glossed over the few people that have mentioned tank maturity and have instead focused on suggestions that involve dosing something. IMO, you don’t need to dose anything, you need to slow down and give your tank time to mature. Adding 40+ frags and 12 fish in the first 2-3 months is just moving way, way too fast.

+1 with this post.
Nothing "good" happens fast in this hobby. Can't expect an instant reef. So much happens behind the scenes that we haven't learned yet. Bad things go bad really fast tho.
OP, hope you find some resolve to the issues.

 

[Morpheosz]

I have to agree that it’s most likely just tank immaturity. Regardless of whether you added some rock from another tank or have coralline growing, a 3 month old tank just isn’t mature, it doesn’t have a diverse and balanced biome. My advice would be to wait for the ICP test results, hold off on dosing anything but a basic two part and do 20% weekly water changes. I do not think you have some widespread bacterial infection affecting multiple different species, beyond brown jelly disease, I’m not even sure such a thing exists (brown jelly does not present as slow tissue recession). I don’t say this to call you out, but it seems like you’ve glossed over the few people that have mentioned tank maturity and have instead focused on suggestions that involve dosing something. IMO, you don’t need to dose anything, you need to slow down and give your tank time to mature. Adding 40+ frags and 12 fish in the first 2-3 months is just moving way, way too fast.

I appreciate the perspective and actionable advice. I am anxiously awaiting the ICP results any day now.

With respect to glossing over the people that said "you went too fast", it's because it's not a specific hypothesis or theory and it's not actionable other than to sit on my hands and wait it out and see what I lose and rebuild from there. I'm not sure there is a proper response to a non-specific "you screwed up" answer. To all of those that mention tank maturity, what specifically about a newer tank would cause rapid onset tissue recession to corals that were otherwise quickly growing, and what would you do about it?

I probably spent a couple hundred hours reading, watching videos, etc. prepping for this tank. I watched numerous veterans setup new tanks, seeding them from old tanks, and adding lots of coral frags pretty quickly to establish the biome. Much of what I had seen was that adding early diversity is what helped to quickly develop the biome and stabilize / mature the tank. Yes I added 40-50 frags, but they don't add up to anything from a biomass standpoint relative to a grown out tank.

So far I have lots of evidence that things were going very right up until 2-3 weeks ago. There is a specific issue going on, whether or not it has anything to do with the tank being relatively new or not is yet to be seen, and the people offering up theories to test other than "you went too fast" are giving me avenues to investigate. I'm happy to slow down at this point but it doesn't change where I'm at and the fact that everything I've done to date has been very well researched and thoughtful, whether or not everyone agrees I chose to follow the correct mentors.

 

[Morpheosz]

What kind of animals did you add? Anything with a taste for coral? As far as tank maturity goes, 8 dkh today is the same as 8dkh in 6 months. If the tank is successfully completing its nitrogen cycle, and parameters are stable, then it shouldn't matter how long its been operating. I would not start throwing a bunch of chemicals at the tank.

Nothing that has touched any of the coral that I've seen and most of it has been in there for awhile now, predating any issues.

The livestock is:

5 green chromis
2 percula clowns
1 Christmas wrasse
1 Kole tang
1 lyretail anthia
2 firefish
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
1 fire shrimp
~6 blue leg hermits
~6 trochus snails
1 turbo snail
1 emerald crab