HELP

[Michael McNeal]

This started about 3 months ago. I have 4 clown fish a yellow tang and a salfin tang in a 139 gal red sea reefer that is 7 to 8 months old. I did a 4 month cycle before adding any life to the tank to avoid alot of issues people have. I have approx 35-40 sps corals and they are thriving. I bought a Naso tang to add to the family and put him in quarentine for 2 weeks. I used Rid-Ich by Kordon and there was no notice of anything with the fish. I added it to my display tank and 3 weeks later I saw ich for the first time in my tank. I immediatley moved all the fish they to the quarentine tank and treated for ich. I did water changes daily because of the tank having new salt water and not being cycled and ket the fish in the Qt for a month. I noticed last night that the fish are experiencing amonia burn from being in the tank so I moved them back to the display and there showing signs of ich immediatlry. what the heck is going on and what did I do wrong? I lost 3 clowns today and everyone else looks horrible. Someone please guide me.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Sorry you're having these problems. I know its very stressful. Did your QT have ammonia badge and were you testing regularly? Rid-Ich doesn't get the job done. You need to treat therapeutic levels of copper. I prefer using Cupramine personally.

The ich parasite has a life cycle that can take up to 76 days to eradicate which means your DT needs to remain fallow during this time period.

 

[Michael McNeal]

Sorry you're having these problems. I know its very stressful. Did your QT have ammonia badge and were you testing regularly? Rid-Ich doesn't get the job done. You need to treat therapeutic levels of copper. I prefer using Cupramine personally.

The ich parasite has a life cycle that can take up to 76 days to eradicate which means your DT needs to remain fallow during this time period.

Can I get this from Pet Co or Pet Smart? I usually dont use them for fish or whatever but sometimes filter pad and such I do.

 

[Michael McNeal]

Sorry you're having these problems. I know its very stressful. Did your QT have ammonia badge and were you testing regularly? Rid-Ich doesn't get the job done. You need to treat therapeutic levels of copper. I prefer using Cupramine personally.

The ich parasite has a life cycle that can take up to 76 days to eradicate which means your DT needs to remain fallow during this time period.

Also dont know what Ammonia badge is? still new sorry

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Sorry about what is going on. The first thing we should do is slow down and get a plan together. At this point the DT has ich in it so moving them back and forth is not good. Let’s get a QT/hospital tank set up with copper power.

I am horrible with disease, but I saw @HotRocks a bit ago online. Let’s see if he or #reefsquad has a moment

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I dealt with a very similar situation that you're in. I had to quickly setup QT tank that hadn't cycled and conduct 50% water changes daily to keep ammonia down for approx 5 weeks. Number one priority is keeping ammonia levels at 0ppm.

Ammonia badge:
https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-0010...ocphy=9030954&hvtargid=pla-310436994159&psc=1

Cupramine:
https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-67105660-Cupramine-Copper-250ml/dp/B0002A5X6Y/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2C0ES15GXNUAJ&keywords=cupramine&qid=1558905536&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=cupramine,pets,197&sr=1-2

Hanna Copper Checker
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=CM20EJgPrXNK-C87ggwab4ILgCp6v9ulOzpDLpO4BtPD9pvEECAQQAiC5VCgdYMne6IbIo5AZoAH38av_A8gBB8gD2CCqBDdP0EyzTQL0tvgbGZZ6NI-YkzaSzkonlaOxHdZHMK4MH8LHgy8MFVt_wal5_FuD0nFcd_2sx5OJwAT-ucTNP4AFkE7ABQWgBiaAB_GNVJAHAagHpr4bqAfZyxuoB8_MG6gH89Eb2AcBsAgBwAgB0ggFEAEghAGaCWdodHRwczovL3d3dy5tYXJpbmVkZXBvdC5jb20vSGFubmFfSW5zdHJ1bWVudHNfQ2hlY2tlcl9Db3BwZXJfSGlnaF9SYW5nZV9Db2xvcmltZXRlci1ITjE3MDItRklURS12aS5odG1ssQlNr50GcvIqx7kJTa-dBnLyKsf4CQHgEt2ly6frjeXB8wE&ctype=5&ved=0ahUKEwjns62GkLriAhVIPq0KHbmlCLYQ9aACCD8&dblrd=1&val=GgjM5e-JpP7kqiABKAAw4dnJoeb_0KdAOOamvs8FQP-ErOcF&sig=AOD64_0B1lFcBEN78mROdkjRpiJhnGbcIw&adurl=https://www.catchmarketingservices.com/tracker1pt.php?var1=marinedepot&var2=adwords&var3=na&kw=&adid=63949153446&MT=&site=&sepos=1o2&device=c&campid=206449206&adgid=17074035966&adtype=pla&merchant_id=2502660&product_channel=online&product_id=HN1702&product_country=US&product_language=en&product_partition_id=167853914164&store_code=&loc_interest_ms=&loc_physical_ms=9030954&network=g&=true&pstpage=https://www.marinedepot.com/Hanna_Instruments_Checker_Copper_High_Range_Colorimeter-HN1702-FITE-vi.html?utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=HN1702

 

[saltyhog]

@pathot984 is giving you good advice though I use Copper Power instead of Cupramine. The Hanna checker will make it much easier. Start at a level of 1.0 and go up slowly to 2.0 over 3 days....small amounts twice a day and recheck the level a few hours after each new dose. You can use Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers while in QT with copper.

I always keep a few bags of ceramic biomedia in my sump. After they've been there a few months you can put them in a HOB filter and very likely will have zero problems with ammonia if you don't grossly over feed. Of course this approach won't be applicable to your present situation but will be a good idea for your next fish additions.

This is why some form of QT is very important. As noted above Rid-ich is not effective to treat for ich. Copper, Tank transfer method, chloriquine phosphate and hyposalinity are your only effective treatments and some strains are not susceptable to hyposalinity.

 

[saltyhog]

Also, please consider rehoming your tangs when they are disease free unless you plan to get a much larger tank soon. The naso can get well over a foot long and needs a much larger tank. Hang in there, the fact that your corals are doing well means you're doing a lot of things right....keep learning and don't get discouraged!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Also, please consider rehoming your tangs when they are disease free unless you plan to get a much larger tank soon. The naso can get well over a foot long and needs a much larger tank. Hang in there, the fact that your corals are doing well means you're doing a lot of things right....keep learning and don't get discouraged!

+1

 

[HotRocks]

You can also consider adding a bacteria in a bottle product when you move the fish to QT. I use biospira. I have had to start tanks up for emergency QT situations and added fish the same or next day after adding the biospira and haven't had ammonia issues. There needs to be something within the tank or HOB for the bacteria to colonize upon.

Are you sure you are dealing with ich? Ich taking out clowns before tangs is pretty unlikely IME. Maybe Brook + ich???

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ammonia is not the issue but rather a protozoan issue and likely velvet or ick. With tangs, success for treatment often starts with a freshwater dip followed by either copper treatment or Furan. Prazipro may work, but a gamble as PraziPro is reef safe when used according to instructions

Also, Add vitamins to their food at least 3X a week and use seaweed as a supplement with their regular feedings. Selcom is a great vitamin supplement and Garlic to their food for their immune system

 

[Softhammer]

I would do none of the above. I have been keeping tangs for close to 20 years and until I could maintain excellent water conditions and ROCK SOLID specific gravity through auto top offs ich was there. Never have I medicated and I have ich free fish. I left my big skimmer off for a week by accident and they got ich. Restored balance and 2 days later they are once again clear. They absolutely need clean, stable water. Tangs, in my experience are harder to keep than SPS corals. Stressed tangs get ich, it’s a fact of life. Feed them heavily with nori and other high quality foods to aid their high metabolism but most of all, don’t screw with the water. Additives can cause ich too. Stressing them out by cooking them in medications and moving them from tank to tank will not end well.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Sorry to interrupt all. I am always reading these to help me learn to improve my giant lack of illness handling. I had 2 questions I wanted to clarify

@pathot984 is giving you good advice though I use Copper Power instead of Cupramine. The Hanna checker will make it much easier. Start at a level of 1.0 and go up slowly to 2.0 over 3 days....small amounts twice a day and recheck the level a few hours after each new dose. You can use Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers while in QT with copper. .

I was under the impression no prime or other agents with copper due to its potential to turn copper toxic due to acting like a reducing agent?

Also on the bio media, I want to clarify it that would be ok based on what hummblefish mentioned about substrate and contaminated

Substrate and rock are best avoided in QT, as those can absorb many medications. However, one or two small pieces of live rock may be added for ammonia control, so long as they are coming from a disease free tank. The live rock will need to be removed once a disease is spotted and before medications are used. Furthermore, the live rock must be considered “contaminated” once exposed to a fish disease, and left in a fallow (fish free) environment for 72 days to starve out any parasites. Or alternatively, sterilize it using a mild bleach solution; after a thorough rinsing & drying period, it can be reused as “dry rock.”

Thanks all.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I would do none of the above. I have been keeping tangs for close to 20 years and until I could maintain excellent water conditions and ROCK SOLID specific gravity through auto top offs ich was there. Never have I medicated and I have ich free fish. I left my big skimmer off for a week by accident and they got ich. Restored balance and 2 days later they are once again clear. They absolutely need clean, stable water. Tangs, in my experience are harder to keep than SPS corals. Stressed tangs get ich, it’s a fact of life. Feed them heavily with nori and other high quality foods to aid their high metabolism but most of all, don’t screw with the water. Additives can cause ich too. Stressing them out by cooking them in medications and moving them from tank to tank will not end well.

I agree with you. I am from the school of nutrition. But, unless the fish has been eating healthy for some time prior to the illness I cannot see switching diet as cure. The increased immunity and overall health obtained by eating healthy would not happen before the disease overtakes the fish. Just not enough time in my opinion to take effect. I look at it like high cholesterol. Eating changes are needed but 1 day will not change it, need weeks to show change.

Just my thoughts

 

[saltyhog]

Sorry to interrupt all. I am always reading these to help me learn to improve my giant lack of illness handling. I had 2 questions I wanted to clarify



I was under the impression no prime or other agents with copper due to its potential to turn copper toxic due to acting like a reducing agent?

Also on the bio media, I want to clarify it that would be ok based on what hummblefish mentioned about substrate and contaminated



Thanks all.

Good catch....I guess I was thinking of CP there. Shouldn't use Prime with copper.

Ceramic biomedia does not absorb copper like live rock can and won't affect copper levels. I've had absolutely unchanged copper levels for 30 consecutive days with ceramic media. Also, copper does not affect the biofilter's effectiveness. I've used the same ceramic media in my copper QT tank several times in a row for different fish batches without any problems or ammonia issues. I still wouldn't use that media for anything else other than QT .

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Good catch....I guess I was thinking of CP there. Shouldn't use Prime with copper.

Ceramic biomedia does not absorb copper like live rock can and won't affect copper levels. I've had absolutely unchanged copper levels for 30 consecutive days with ceramic media. Also, copper does not affect the biofilter's effectiveness. I've used the same ceramic media in my copper QT tank several times in a row for different fish batches without any problems or ammonia issues. I still wouldn't use that media for anything else other than QT .

Thanks, appreciate the response. I like reading these to help me get better with disease.

 

[jpcrash1]

I would do none of the above. I have been keeping tangs for close to 20 years and until I could maintain excellent water conditions and ROCK SOLID specific gravity through auto top offs ich was there. Never have I medicated and I have ich free fish. I left my big skimmer off for a week by accident and they got ich. Restored balance and 2 days later they are once again clear. They absolutely need clean, stable water. Tangs, in my experience are harder to keep than SPS corals. Stressed tangs get ich, it’s a fact of life. Feed them heavily with nori and other high quality foods to aid their high metabolism but most of all, don’t screw with the water. Additives can cause ich too. Stressing them out by cooking them in medications and moving them from tank to tank will not end well.

+1 well said.

 

[jpcrash1]

In my opinion putting a tang in a small tank with copper can really stress it out. I feed my my fish well and live with ich. Tried quarantine and lost a lot of fish in the process. Many have had success with qt. I am not one.

 

[Softhammer]

Show me an ocean with a natural copper spring and I will change my tone. Until then, if you have an issue, you’re not doing something right. Aim to replicate the ocean. Not a doctors office.

 

[ngoodermuth]

The biggest difference between the ocean and our tanks, in regards to home-aquaria and fish parasites- is water volume. The ocean is a whole lot bigger. Certain fish parasites, notably velvet and brooklynella, take advantage of their naturally-fast reproduction rates and the easy access to the confined fish hosts in our little glass boxes. It is possible to treat the parasites, and still use nutrition / UV, and other supportative measures to bolster the fish post-treatment and as added insurance. Live and frozen foods, vitamin and fatty acids, LRS foods with probiotics, nori... all good stuff and can be used with medications when necessary to to prevent catastrophic parasitic-outbreaks.