Hey Triton, what's going on with my macro algae?

[Wesus]

I don't have a microscope so i don't know for sure what it is.
When it first came back I thought it was diatoms, but it gets stringy and holds air bubbles.
And it's not just on the sandbed, its on the rocks, on my gorgonians, on my frag rack, on my pump heads, on my urchin's spines... everywhere.


I was going to like your post, but that just doesn't seem appropriate.

There is thread on RC by DNA about long fight with Dinoflagellates. Before you restart your tank consider reading this thread. It could be waste of time and money if you have dinos, they will show up in new setup again if you transfer livestock and they can affect macro algae and corals growth

 

[d2mini]

There is thread on RC by DNA about long fight with Dinoflagellates. Before you restart your tank consider reading this thread. It could be waste of time and money if you have dinos, they will show up in new setup again if you transfer livestock and they can affect macro algae and corals growth

Yep, read it.
I've spent hours and hours reading about dinos.
Coral are all getting dipped and QT, fish are getting FW dipped and put into another QT.
Tank, plumbing, sump, pumps is getting bleached.
All new rock and sand.

 

[Wesus]

Good luck with restart!

 

[theMerchant]

I was having the same issues, algae not growing and getting cyano anf dyno. I see we were both trying to dose Vibrant. I believe pur issues had something with Vibrant killing the macro and thus our nutrients go up...more dt algae.
Did your nitrates and phosphates go up during this phase? I did a 3 days blackout and it really took out all my dinos.
Im running biopellets and a phosphate filter, and everything is looking better. I also stopped dosing vibrant.
I am going to run a ATS to help with the nitrates and with continue with Triton.
Take a step back and see if your problems started the same time as using Vibrant or something else.
Good luck either way.

 

[d2mini]

I was having the same issues, algae not growing and getting cyano anf dyno. I see we were both trying to dose Vibrant. I believe pur issues had something with Vibrant killing the macro and thus our nutrients go up...more dt algae.
Did your nitrates and phosphates go up during this phase? I did a 3 days blackout and it really took out all my dinos.
Im running biopellets and a phosphate filter, and everything is looking better. I also stopped dosing vibrant.
I am going to run a ATS to help with the nitrates and with continue with Triton.
Take a step back and see if your problems started the same time as using Vibrant or something else.
Good luck either way.

I didn't dose Vibrant. I think I put one dose in at some point and then changed my mind.
I've been using vibrant in my nano to kill bryopsis.
We think the algae died because nitrates dropped to zero and I wasn't trimming it back.
I had to dose nitrates to get them back up and stay there during all this.

 

[HolisticBear]

Yep, read it.
I've spent hours and hours reading about dinos.
Coral are all getting dipped and QT, fish are getting FW dipped and put into another QT.
Tank, plumbing, sump, pumps is getting bleached.
All new rock and sand.

You mentioned a few times that this tank has been one giant experienment. Given your extensive hobby knowledge, some gorgeous show-tanks in the past, and all your efforts with this particular tank, writing a postmortem as a Reef2Reef article would be amazing asset. Clearly to be continued with a part 2 later in the year.

I know it's alot of work and selfish to ask, but throwing it out there.

 

[d2mini]

@MrMichael yes it has been quite the experiment, and although its gotten to this point, I don't necessarily regret it. Not all of it anyway. I do like to experiment. This one just happened to fail.
I don't think Triton is inherently bad... i just had a bad go of it. If I was to do it again, I could probably take what I've learned and avoid issues. Maybe.

I'm just not seeing the benefits I was hoping to see.
In theory it all made sense. In practice, it's been a lot of headaches.
I've had to do some pretty larger water changes over the months.
First time I completely redid the fuge because I had an Ulva infestation.
Then the fuge was exploding... then died. Redid it again.
Now it wouldn't even support macros.
Eventually got nutrients back up and macros at least survived, but by now the display went south.
Between the massive algae die off, and then the subsequent treatments to kill the nuisance algae, we created a mess.
I'd much rather go back to small water changes or an AWC setup, and keep an eye on the minor stuff with occasional icp tests.
And only dose what I know I'm dosing (alk, calc and mag) whether that be via a doser or a CaRx.
At least I know what's going in the tank and can better control it.
And the fuge will be chaeto that gets trimmed, just like I always have, and have always ended up with very low nutrients with no gfo or anything else needed.

Fingers cross that my second go with this tank is more successful than the first.
Maybe after things settle in I can look back and evaluate things with a clearer mind... not when I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[csund]

I'm no expert and any of this is from my personal observations.

I started my first saltwater tank in August starting with the Triton method and TBS rock. Initially the chaeto took off like wildfire outcompeting the red macros. I ended up with very low nitrates but higher phosphates. I started seeing Dinos on the sand and clinging to my urchins. I researched and started by dosing nitrate and iron, from Pax Bellum. The nitrate bottle is mixed with molybdenum and the iron with manganese. I now keep my nitrates over 5ppm and use GFO to keep my phosphates down. Right now my phosphate on Hanna ULR is .064. I still have the slightest amount of Dinos on the sand but the urchins are clean and my rock never got to that point. I can watch the Dinos on the sand fade shortly after dosing nitrate. On my next GFO change I will add another tablespoon of GFO and monitor phosphates.

A few other things I noticed. Lighting, too much gave me bad results. I initially started with the Kessil A160 purple, it was hung very close to the water using the long kessil gooseneck. After my chaeto crashed Dinos took over. I knew the A160 wasn't full spectrum so decided to change it to the A360w which when mounted with the new shorter gooseneck and a 90 degree adapter I was able to raise it 4-5" higher than I previously had be able to. I noticed slower growth but I also have the intensity dialed way back and the spectrum around 6800k. Almost overnight that the Dinos faded away leaving behind a mess of unhealthy chaeto strings. During this time I ran filter pads to collect the nasty stuff. I reordered more macros from liveplants.com, along with the red macro pack. They've been slowly growing for over two weeks with a minor amount of hair algae which clings to the baffle. I picked this out. It has yet to grow in the macros. I learned from this that I don't need the macros to explode in growth, just control the nutrients. I run my refugium lighting the entire time my DT lights are off.

I also noticed from the core7 elements when they precipitated (not enough flow) that the chunks floated across the top of my refugium and down the overflow to the skimmer section. I took this as the nutrient rich water was passing right over the dense macros before. I added a pump in the chamber prior to my refugium with a section of hose to add movement in the depths of the refugium. I've had better growth and less detritus buildup since. I also drastically increased the flow rate through my sump and in the DT.

On your sump you could lower the drain into the refugium to the bottom where it would have to flow up through the algae.

Before you tear it down I would try adding more nitrates and see what happens. I test nitrate nightly and dose before the refugium lights come on. My refugium light comes on when my DT light turns off and vise versa. Per the thread Mike posted on tank parameters some of those tanks have 10-20ppm normally.

My hope is eventually when everything has balanced out I wont have to dose nitrate and just use GFO for phosphate.

 

[Velcro]

I went through this same thing (reset due to dinos). They made it back into my restart when I transferred SPS back into the tank.

 

[JustinFromAL]

Well dang, this is disappointing. I started my Triton adventure a few months after you, honestly I thought if it's "good enough for d2mini it's good enough for me". I'm currently in my first set of water changes after an initial ICP high in Tin, I've had a GHA bloom but I think that was due to my dumb decision to trim macro and cut my skimmer to 12 hours after I got concerned about 0 nitrate and phosphate.

I'll be interested to see if I end up in similar place, from what I've seen we both have similar analytical approaches. I have no doubt that you could have made Triton work but understand the reasoning behind rebooting.

I think there's definitely something to having a good "base" for Triton though. It's purely anecdotal but I don't hear a lot of people say "Triton fixed my tank!" it's more "Triton enhanced my already successful tank!". It's almost like a stable, successful setup is a precursor for a successful Triton tank. Again, all anecdotal.

Either way, mixed feelings about seeing you reboot. Glad for all the knowledge you've shared, now apprehensive about my future success, lol.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

My DT looks the same as yours. Hahaha. That's so funny. We really have experienced a very similar path!

...add me to the list as well.

This isn't my first rodeo... but I sure have struggled so far with little coral or positive algae growth to date.

The brown snot finally cleared for me and I am starting to see some coralline growth in the DT, but it's also coming in with some bubble algae which will be difficult to address with an active hawkfish (who would probably relish an emerald crab or two as a snack).

Not ready for a redo yet and I'm sorry to see you pitching in the towel Dennis. Was really hoping you had it under control and were going to lead us to the promised land of new Triton setups (it is becoming more and more apparent, at least IMO, that mature tanks handle the transition better).

 

[Want2BS8ed]

I think there's definitely something to having a good "base" for Triton though. It's purely anecdotal but I don't hear a lot of people say "Triton fixed my tank!" it's more "Triton enhanced my already successful tank!". It's almost like a stable, successful setup is a precursor for a successful Triton tank. Again, all anecdotal.

Responded before seeing your post Justin. Couldn't agree more.

 

[HolisticBear]

not when I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Understood and your frustrations are clearly warranted. Best of luck and will definitely follow all the details of the reboot

 

[d2mini]

Tagging along. Seems to be fairly common with newly established tanks.

I agree with you Dennis, gut says there is just something missing. I have been dosing nitrates for 3-weeks now maintaining ~2ppm. P04 is around 0.016ppm and just not seeing positive results. Also using Tropic Marin Pro salt.

Nothing out of the ordinary in my first Triton test other than a high level of tin. Received some Panta Lith today which I will dose, wait a few days and then start the 1st of 6 15% weekly water changes to get the tin down. I will keep everyone apprised so we can at least gain some annecdoctal evidence if the water changes have a positive impact.

Still debating on using Vibrant for the brown snot, but given that it's bacterial based I don't see the harm. Just hate to throw to many things at the tank all at once... then you don't know which solution worked!

How did the Tin situation work out?
My last icp test results finally came back and that was my only issue... high levels of Tin with the same water change schedule you had.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

How did the Tin situation work out?
My last icp test results finally came back and that was my only issue... high levels of Tin with the same water change schedule you had.

Following the Panta Lith, Detox and the 1st week of water changes, February's icp test showed the tin had been cut in half (from 18 ug/l to 9 ug/l).

Just dropped March's sample in the mail Thursday after an additional 4 weeks of water changes, so it will be interesting to see where the tin comes out.

Debating if the next step is dosing Fe to help with macros...

 

[Reefahholic]

No worries D2, happens to the best reefers too. Start fresh with what you know and go slow. You always said you like to recreate the ocean. Exp. live rock, live sand, etc. Then re-evaluate later. Right now you got work to do to get things back on track. Best of luck bother!

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm thinking I should start super slow with the Core7 Base Elements.?

 

[Reefahholic]

Dennis, if you have any of that algae left...get a sample on a glass slide, air dry it, put a cover slip on it and mail it to me. I'll scope it for you. That's if you still haven't identified what it is. I can take pics and video with my scope. Just let me know.

 

[Want2BS8ed]

Following the Panta Lith, Detox and the 1st week of water changes, February's icp test showed the tin had been cut in half (from 18 µg/l to 9 µg/l).

Just dropped March's sample in the mail Thursday after an additional 4 weeks of water changes, so it will be interesting to see where the tin comes out.

Dennis, quick update.


Icp results were just posted and tin is down to 3.55 µg/l indicating the Pantha Lith/Detox treatment was slightly more effective than just plain water changes.

I will continue the w/c's through the next sample (have the ability to do that on a continuous basis from the pre-Triton days - and frankly I'm just more comfortable with it) and see if I can get the tin level's below Triton's recommended 0.1 µg/l.

In the meantime, macros continue to deteriorate, but the DT is looking better.

M

 

[Want2BS8ed]

Should have added to my earlier post that the water changes have been with Tropic Marin Pro salt. Triton doesn't offer bulk PURE (at least in the US) and with a 220 gallon system volume, TM seemed the more prudent route.

M