High Ammonia level after 10% water change

[Baigent87]

Hi Guys!!! I’m new here so take it easy on me

I’m 1 week into my cycle using 2 clownfish and a bottle of Dr Tim’s One & Only.

After testing once a day for the past week I’ve seen a large spike in ammonia (1.2) which has held strong for the past 4 days. I was advised by my local aquatics store to do a 10% water change which I’ve done, I retested after a couple of hours and the ammonia levels are still at 1.2.

The fish seem fine, darting around the tank and eating great. I’ve reduced there meals to one medium feed per day as was feeding twice a day.

Should I do another larger water change or wait for the drop in ammonia?

 

[Grumblez]

That you read 0.2 in nitrite indicate that you are not cycled.

@Baigent87 You have to conflicting general advises here - me saying no WC and more bottled nitrification bacteria (by the way if they do not have anything to work with - they will not consume oxygen) and brandon saying the opposite.

You must do an own decision what to do - chose whom you trust and follow that path - do not do anything between

A tough decision - but that´s life

In my first post in this thread - i give some links that explain my way of handling these things - I have not more to say that is not in these links - so I´m out for the moment

Sincerely Lasse

You could read .2 in nitrite for months!

 

[Stuartmercer]

Just be patient with the cycle, never rush anything in this hobby. Welcome to Reef2Reef!

 

[Lasse]

You could read .2 in nitrite for months!

True - but that´s still indicate unsatisfactory nitrification. A normal mature aquarium reads between 0.02 - 0.05 mg/L NO2. Mine as an example - 5 years old and rather mature reads between 0 and 0.05 - mostly around 0.02. Measured with Hanna marin ULR nitrite checker and by Oceamo in Wienna. They use ion chromatography (with conductivity and UV detection). However that concentration - 0.2 mg/L nitrite - is not toxic in saltwater,

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JL15219]

Hello and Welcome to R2R!!

 

[Manny’s Reef]

Welcome. Glad to have you here.

 

[vetteguy53081]

 

[Baigent87]

Quick update! So ……. Ammonia has remained the same (high) over the past few days. I’ve taken some great advise, stayed patient and kept a watchful eye on the clowns I tested today and as you can see from my pic we now have that spike in nitrate I’ve been waiting for! Will continue testing and really hope to see that ammonia and nitrate level come down!

 

[Lasse]

have that spike in nitrate I’ve been waiting for!

In reality - it is not a nitrate spike - it is a nitrite spike. Nitrite in the water will result in a too high nitrate reading with these types of tests. Often between 50 to 100 times. If you read 0.2 in nitrite it will rise the readings of nitrate with between 10 to 20 mg/L Nitrate.



Sincerely Lasse

 

[John Bolden]

welcome

 

[Baigent87]

In reality - it is not a nitrate spike - it is a nitrite spike. Nitrite in the water will result in a too high nitrate reading with these types of tests. Often between 50 to 100 times. If you read 0.2 in nitrite it will rise the readings of nitrate with between 10 to 20 mg/L Nitrate.



Sincerely Lasse

So I did notice my nitrite level drop slightly and of course the obvious rise in nitrate reading. Should I still expect the test kit to eventually show 0ish ammonia, 0 nitrate and around 0.2 nitrite? It would be good to have a simple reference from a test kit perspective to confirm when my tank is cycled.

 

[Lasse]

I agree with Brandon that these ammonia test kits often show to high values but have not been out for any that show as high as yours (1,2 mg/L) and been totally false. For the moment I think that you probably have some NH4/NH3 but it could be total false too. in your case - I would relay on the nitrite test - what are the readings for the moment? In a normal, working tank - nitrite levels use to be below 0.05 mg/L and if you are higher than that - I think that you can use your nitrite measurements as an indicator if you are cycled or not. when nitrite shows below 0.05 - you have done your home run regardless what your ammonia test says. But be careful - it is rather impossible to sit in front of my keyboard and judge exactly what you should do or not - I can only speak from a general point of view - hoe it use to be. Be careful with your feeding.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Baigent87]

I agree with Brandon that these ammonia test kits often show to high values but have not been out for any that show as high as yours (1,2 mg/L) and been totally false. For the moment I think that you probably have some NH4/NH3 but it could be total false too. in your case - I would relay on the nitrite test - what are the readings for the moment? In a normal, working tank - nitrite levels use to be below 0.05 mg/L and if you are higher than that - I think that you can use your nitrite measurements as an indicator if you are cycled or not. when nitrite shows below 0.05 - you have done your home run regardless what your ammonia test says. But be careful - it is rather impossible to sit in front of my keyboard and judge exactly what you should do or not - I can only speak from a general point of view - hoe it use to be. Be careful with your feeding.

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks Lasse! I completely stopped feeding for the past 4 days ish

I’m very new to this hobby so can really only go on the test kits available to me and solid advise from people like yourself.

My nitrite level has consistently sat at 0.2 for just over a week. It did appear to drop slightly today or at least took an awful lot longer to get to 0.2. It sat at 0.5 for over an hour.

 

[brandon429]

Consider the link below as to why your ammonia is falsely reading, causing invalid concern

 

[LIreefguy]

Did you use dry rock or live rock

Also IMO the easiest way to cycle a tank is a few pieces of live rock
2 days later add a few cuc
3 days later feed a mysis cube

2 weeks later add 1 fish and don’t feed to heavy

once every other day
You should be fine. I never use bacteria
Don’t feel the need
Live rock has everything you need
But personally if this is going to be a reef tank I would go fish less for at least 6 months especially if this is your first tank

algae Issues for first timers is very very common. If you wait it gives your rock time to grow all the good stuff and makes it easier on you

 

[brandon429]

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Team how many times did we need to know your alkalinity to turn out cycles ready here with fish or your ph or any other param if you have water, and time depending on the boosters used, you get a full complete cycle and not a partial one. Someone update the cycling rules for the hobby with...

www.reef2reef.com

how many actual reef cycles plus follow up is that

How many had your same concerns (all of them)

 

[brandon429]

Please post a current full tank shot


Pictures are what we use in that thread, to get the results logged

If your system couldn't control ammonia it'd be dead and gray by now. You paid for skip cycle ability, which works, and has been tested and logged by machines a hundred times more accurate than what you're using. There are no half cycles


There is cycled, can't carry fish, or not cycled, the whole system dies within two days after your first feeding

But never after your fortieth feeding, we want our readers in false ammonia alert threads to know this rule

Non seneye test kits grossly overreport natural trace levels of ammonia that signify a working ready system. Tan conversions, from the instruction booklet, though never factored here but should be, help even these nine dollar testers get within a football field of accuracy.

 

[Lasse]

folks go to believe api out of context

Maybe it time to read the posts - the OP do not use API - he/she use Red Sea

My nitrite level has consistently sat at 0.2 for just over a week. It did appear to drop slightly today or at least took an awful lot longer to get to 0.2. It sat at 0.5 for over an hour.

Red sea says a certain time to wait before you do the readings. I´ll think it is 9 minutes. It is the reading after this time (probably 9 minutes) that is valid. In your case - the real value is 0.5 mg/L. It means that your nitrite concentration is rising - the system is not fully cycled. What are you reading in ammonia for the moment ?

The conversion from ammonium into nitrate has two steps NH4/NH3 -> NO2 and NO2->NO3. In freshwater the first step can be done of rather many different groups of microorganisms including archaea, bacteria and fungus. In saltwater it seems that it is mainly archaea (AOA - Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea) that is responsible for the first step. as an example an microbiome DNA analyze of my aquaria shows only DNA traces from AOA - not any AOB (Ammonia-Oxidizing Bacteria). They can exist in saltwater but it looks like the archaea is the most important group and have a much faster growth. The other step NO2 -> NO3 is done by autotrophic NOB (Nitrit-Oxidizing Bacteria). In freshwater bacteria from both the genus of nitrobacter and nitrospira seems active. In saltwater - it seems like the genus nitrospira is dominating. This step normally take a longer time to start and be effective - the process stall between the two steps. In freshwater - nitrite is deadly but in saltwater it is not - therefor many people does not care for the nitrite - but never the less - in a working aquarium with fully cycled nitrification process - the steps are more or less seamless - you normally may detect around 0 - 0.05 mg/L (ppm) nitrite in a mature system.

If you still read around 1.2 mg/L total ammonia with your Red Sea test and read a rising NO2 concentration - at least I can´t negligee the ammonia reading and declare them false. Normally around 5 days after a start people read low ammonia and middle NO2 and skyrocket NO3. The sky rocket NO3 is false as long as you can read NO2 levels above 0,05 - 0.07 mg/L. In this case - adding nitrification bacteria from the genus nitrospira can improve the cycling and make it going faster. However if your ammonia level do not decrease below (around) 0.2 - 0.4 mg/L you maybe should try to confirm your reading with another test. If you can confirm a rather high ammonia concentration - you may need to see if you can add something that contain archaea. I have not seen any commercial products containing archaea but gravel and filter content from workin aquarium contain them and there is also a trick with unfertilized forest soil you can use. Take a handful soil from the upper 20 cm layer and mix it with some gallons of water. Filter the mix through a coffee filter and store the filtrate in the refrigerator - take out some every day and add some to your tank. This was the way we did it in the stone age before the idea with bottled bacteria was born.

Look at my article 15 steps for a idea of a feeding regime for the coming weeks. I would try to follow that and keep an eye on the fish. If your reading of 1.2 ppm total ammonia is correct - you still will not reach acute toxic levels of the dangerous NH3 if your pH is normal (8 - 8.2) - but you should - IMO - keep a close eye on your fish behavior. Prepare a WC if thing seems to go downhill - but IME it is much better not to do a WC just in case.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jtp7004ft]

welcome

 

[Frizzy reefnewb]

Hi Guys!!! I’m new here so take it easy on me

I’m 1 week into my cycle using 2 clownfish and a bottle of Dr Tim’s One & Only.

After testing once a day for the past week I’ve seen a large spike in ammonia (1.2) which has held strong for the past 4 days. I was advised by my local aquatics store to do a 10% water change which I’ve done, I retested after a couple of hours and the ammonia levels are still at 1.2.

The fish seem fine, darting around the tank and eating great. I’ve reduced there meals to one medium feed per day as was feeding twice a day.

Should I do another larger water change or wait for the drop in ammonia?

They’re clownfish they neverrrrr dieeeee IMO very hardy you’ll be ok

 

[blasterman]

If the fish were ammonia stressed they would not be eating and would be lethargically hanging around the top of the tank.

Also, doing big water changes lengthens the time for bacteria to establish because you are diluting ammonia.

Last, if the tank weren't cycled ammonia would continue to increase, not just sit at a specific level.

Never understood why nitrite tests even exist.