High nitrites during cycle

BRS

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Tank has been cycling for 3.5 weeks. Used fishless cycle with dr tims one and only and ammonia. Ammonia is at 0. Nitrites are off the chart high and nitrates are very high (close to 100).
It’s a 40g IM. This isn’t my first tank, but it’s the first time I’ve done the fishless cycle. I’m in no rush.
What’s the next step?

Wait it out? Water change?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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change water and begin, the nitrites aren't factored in updated cycling science. I have a large work thread showing several tanks exactly like this doing fine, plus all the dry rock setups they make at reef conventions to show the power of bottle bac are given 2 days to prepare, not almost 4 weeks. then they stack them in clownfish to show the skip cycle...that time above alone fulfills a standard cycling chart anyway, can begin.

even if you didnt do a water change, and began now, that's fine nothing will be burned, harmed etc.

Its to export algae fuel water ideally, the initial water change.

there is a greater chance your test is misreading than not, but even if its not (nitrite control is ~25 days on a cycling chart) it still doesnt matter, we no longer factor nitrite in anything that has to do with display tank reefing. Randy shows why its a chemically inert compound in our systems in his chem forum, and then by omitting it further we don't miss practical start dates, the date on the directions for dr tims is about ten days, it was ready a while back.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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also

we want to be accountable for such calls made. pls update your thread when you add new life, it is ready and we want to match outcomes in pics to the prediction or new cycling science is of no use at all

we can link this in large cycle study threads.

whatever you add/acclimate carefully will be fine

very high nitrates=confirmation of live bacteria.

the condition of having positive nitrite has caused thousands of $ in redundant bottle bac sales alone, its massive. google shows it in action


another nice benefit of updated cycling science is save money
:)

nitrites will not:
stall your cycle, even if an online video says it will and has for sale items to help.

harm fish

harm inverts

harm pods

harm corals

harm bacteria or affect ammonia control at all, in a display tank.

nitrite has no measurable consequence whatsoever. now if this was freshwater, that's opposite.

the three proofs you are cycled was ammonia dosed, and going down within the timeframe on the bottle directions lending tons of nitrate.
 
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Bubblebass

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That being the case, when would you expect my nitrates to come down? Over the course of many water changes? With stability of the new eco balance?
 

brandon429

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our testing is so varied on that one too, no telling. we have on file threads between api, red sea and salifert showing 50 ppm nitrate differences, but for the most part nitrate will go down in % relative to a water change *up until internal waste stores and stocked animals and feeding makes the rebound so fast a water change doesnt help much.

that's from Randy's article on nitrate in the reef tank, my basic understanding of it. certain exports and binders are needed to control it in aging tanks.


right now in a new tank, your nitrate is a function solely of the ammonia added in solution and the % water change will lower it accordingly for now.

when that rascal has a sandbed full of waste material months set in, water changes might actually increase nitrates lol vs lower them because pouring new water in a tank disturbs the sand. aging brings on nitrate details very different from now.


Thats the main algae fuel we like to lower by water changing, so change any degree of water that is practical and can begin. small nanos can change it all. we have some 75 gallon setups on file where 30 or 40 gallons was a nice mid ground.

Paul B's 50 year old full reef runs average 60-100 ppm nitrate it varies, so no harm there his corals are great. *he has a varied, naturally stocked system of grazers or that would for sure boost some algae in a typical dry start tank comparatively. but it works for him.


it shows how only ammonia is the lethal param. nitrite we dont care about, and nitrate can vary wildly between successful tanks. some low, some very very high like Paul's/
 
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Bubblebass

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When you refer to “we”, do you own a company or have a lab you’re referring to?
 

brandon429

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no am meaning web nerds who do battle online to influence reef procedure lol

people post threads in the chemistry forum asking why test kits vary so much on the same sample and people who read those threads keep them handy for linking in future jobs, or changing course for a given reef. The main takeaway is that testing varies quite a bit for the classic cycling parameters, you have no concern at the current levels no matter how you start.


being able to safely begin reefing is a big step and I thought it would be important to see non digital testers as more of a guesstimate


it saves you being motivated to buy things or hesitate vs know when to ignore a test kit and proceed.


calcium and alk levels seem a little tighter reads brand to brand, but my gosh nitrate is all over the place usually.
 

brandon429

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totally random search result I haven’t even read it yet. Let’s see what they said
 

brandon429

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Mainly bring down potential algae fuel.

you are past cycling, and into planning for uglies prevention. Well we are, anyway

no matter how high nitrate gets it won’t kill anything, it will help select for plant growth classically. It is not a lethal param whatsoever and neither is nitrite. Paul B’s reef 160ppm highest
 
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Top Shelf Aquatics

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Results may be accurate depending how much ammonia you added. Expect roughly, 3.5 ppm nitrate per 1 ppm ammonia dosed, assuming no denitrification or other methods of removal.

As mentioned above the nutrients will likely cause an Algae explosion when the lights come on. And if I recall correctly, I did find the invertebrate threshold was 80-100 ppm before they show signs of stress. You can reduce nitrate quickly with a water change or wait for refugium, algae or bacteria to remove it.
 

KevPool

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also

we want to be accountable for such calls made. pls update your thread when you add new life, it is ready and we want to match outcomes in pics to the prediction or new cycling science is of no use at all

we can link this in large cycle study threads.

whatever you add/acclimate carefully will be fine

very high nitrates=confirmation of live bacteria.

the condition of having positive nitrite has caused thousands of $ in redundant bottle bac sales alone, its massive. google shows it in action


another nice benefit of updated cycling science is save money
:)

nitrites will not:
stall your cycle, even if an online video says it will and has for sale items to help.

harm fish

harm inverts

harm pods

harm corals

harm bacteria or affect ammonia control at all, in a display tank.

nitrite has no measurable consequence whatsoever. now if this was freshwater, that's opposite.

the three proofs you are cycled was ammonia dosed, and going down within the timeframe on the bottle directions lending tons of nitrate.
Thanks for all the info this was a great read
 

KevPool

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Thank you very much for checking it out, if you know of any seemingly stuck cycles/problem start examples link em so we can study
I was following another thread with the guy who was having 8ppm of ammonia mine isn't close to that high but I did have a problem when I started my cycle I put too much ammonia in as well. I wouldn't say I stalled it the tank will be cycling now for two weeks on Sunday and my ammonia is down to 1.2 from 3ppm. I just clicked the link you posted on that thread I will contribute what I can for info on my overdose of ammonia. I have a section of it listed in my builder link.
 
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brandon429

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Nice. That motion down is what we look for now vs the stall

didn’t have to go all the way to zero ammonia, just down. We did that to accommodate the usual test allowances for api, and because we think there is a new rule in reefing that says ammonia can never stick at .25 in anyone’s reef tank. any surface area or inoculation sufficient to move down a grip of ammonia has no physical reason the last 20% couldn’t be handled. Users of seneye know nh3 never runs in the tenths it runs in the hundredths or thousandths ppm. Api can’t report that level, neither can the other testers by color, they approximate as best as possible.
 

nereefpat

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A lot of posts, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet:

If you have nitrites present, then your Nitrate kit will read falsely high. The way Nitrate kits work is by reducing nitrate to nitrite which reacts to an indicator. You can't trust a nitrate value when you have nitrites.
 
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Bubblebass

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Update to this thread.

I added a rock nem, a couple of polyp frags and a few fish. They are all fine. My tank is now in the "ugly phase" so I'm going to wait on more coral at this point.
 
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