High nitrites during cycle

[Reef craze]

are you past day ten of submersion time

Today is day 10 and that was the reason for the posts. Weird to see nitrites jump from 2 ppm to 5ppm with 0 ammonia and ammonia to just from 0ppm to .50 ppm overnight.

 

[Reef craze]

Are you sure your testing for NH3?, it’s very high, if you are.

NH3 ammonia yes ammonia reading 0 yesterday then 0.5 today

 

[brandon429]

you have a choice but at least your cycle isn't affected.

option one-see if you want to attain the results of this thread in your tank, we ignore nitrite based on Randy's detailed chemistry discussions.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-unstick-any-seemingly-stuck-cycle.742202/
option 2, old school cycling: wait till you get zero nitrite which is no harm at all. you have two opposing choices now at least, option one says select a disease control protocol you're done, you paid for ten day bacteria and nitrite is neutral in reefing.


regarding the twenty page work thread above, how are the reefs that are given exact start dates working out> message the entrants to have them discuss outcomes if you want to test option 1 before using.

 

[brandon429]

a key point to remember: there's a gradient against change in reefing practice and its justified. prevents snake oil from getting through


in 2001 if you owned a pico reef and posted in reef forums you got laughed at, accused of plumbing tricks and in some cases banned for spreading false saltwater tank info. gradient, strong.

but if then ten thousand people online agree to try the setup and began posting in reef forums with great outcomes, the tides change, against the grain. I assure you with firsthand practice this is going to occur with nitrite evaluation in cycling.


the reason we don't care about nitrite in cycling above is because we care about fish disease prevention, and nitrite zero or nitrite positive has zero effect on disease expression. per the disease forum, most of those entrants waited for classic zero nitrite cycling, still lost the fish. to concern over nitrite in reefing is to directly assume Randy's article is no longer valid, despite just massive logs of new cyclers willing to prove the changes coming. that link above is one of ten, equally full of links where nitrite caused stumbles, false stalls, and for sure triple the purchase of bottled bacteria. its a false sales driver.

guarantee: what happened with pico reefs will happen regarding the shift away from nitrite factoring in all of display tank reefing.

 

[Garf]

NH3 ammonia yes ammonia reading 0 yesterday then 0.5 today

What test are you using, are you sure it’s not a NH3 + NH4 test?

 

[Reef craze]

Even with sky high nitrites I’m seeing very low nitrates. Could it be because of the amount of rock and deep sand bed along with marine pure balls. I added 100 pounds of sand like 150 pounds of rock and a large box of marine pure balls. Or could it be the test kit I’m using for the weird fluctuations in results.

 

[Reef craze]

What test are you using, are you sure it’s not a NH3 + NH4 test?

 

[brandon429]

what it means by you adding that much surface area is that your cycle is 100% qualified to be in that thread above, and the outcomes will match it exactly, your start date per non test markers in that thread is now.

Dr. Reef already tracked Dr. Tims to readiness on day ten or earlier, that's a consistent marker we use above. Fritz is 1-2 days max total adherence to surfaces, its fastest we think.

ammonia control is what we focus on there, you've met it within common timeframes we've already been testing there a while. nice cycle its ready for use, choose your first fish inputs well.


the reason I don't have an answer for nitrite or nitrate here is because those aren't digital measures for the two. when compared to digital measures, the numbers will be totally different, so its too much ballparking to even guess at. your real numbers may be reversed, very low nitrites and high nitrate, we'd never know without seeing the digital results and then you're still left with the total neutrality of nitrite in reefing

the actual balance wouldnt affect any decision we make above.

nitrate measuring is for color tuning in corals, balancing invasions, its not a requisite cycling param and on api its about as variable as guessing at the levels.

 

[Garf]

Ok, using them kits you are still safe, or more accurately, your fish are still safe. API nitrate tests are sometimes a bit wayward, I wouldn’t worry about that either.
You got a tank pic?

 

[brandon429]

as seen in post one in the link, your thread can carry fish legitimately with no harm based on nitrites, they're neutral impact in reefing. 100% of every tank in the link was nitrite positive but ammonia negative when they started with fish-- and now some are a year old we can run follow ups on live time.

the purpose of that thread is to test what happens in nitrite positive quick reef starts. what resulted was complete control over cycle timing in any household who wants to participate. every single tank got a specific start date, consider how old cycling science works: wait three months if API says to, no doubting test kits allowed. old cycling science will never admit to, or analyze and post, the occurrence of mis testing in cycling params among reefers. old cycling science says you may not begin, the speed cycle you paid for is not done, wait open-ended a month longer.


that's the equivalent of an old schooler telling you that your ten gallon tank won't work its too small, minimum 20 based on his idea of minimums.

 

[Reef craze]

Ok, using them kits you are still safe, or more accurately, your fish are still safe. API nitrate tests are sometimes a bit wayward, I wouldn’t worry about that either.
You got a tank pic?

Here is a pic of the tank best I can get on iPad.

 

[Garf]

Here is a pic of the tank best I can get on iPad.

Excellent, you’ll be grand :)

 

[Reef craze]

Thank you for all your help. I’ll start adding fish after a water change. You saved me a big headache

 

[Garf]

Thank you for all your help. I’ll start adding fish after a water change. You saved me a big headache

Update us in a few days, I thought you had already put the fish in, tbh.

 

[brandon429]

it must be said that makes your chance of losing those fish, or the ones coming after them, about 90% by this coming March.

the ability to carry bioload quick as afforded from the bottle of bac is ushering in masses of fish loss by combining species without preps from pet stores. bucket loads of fish daily, tossed out. if cycling caused that there'd be a rumble, but fish keepers are allowed to do it daily provided their cycle was agreed upon by the sages lol.

we have to work to lessen 8 month fish loss trends.

if all the coming fish are quarantined though, or bought from qt sources, then about 10%. these loss statistics relative to cycling choice and bioload addition come right from the fish disease forum. today will have new help threads posted who opted for the 90% option above. adding fish really changes the game, but not for the filter.


that's one thing I never missed in pico reefing, we can pack them to the hilt in corals and grow them now with no losses, tank is too small for fish to worry about fish.

 

[Reef craze]

No I wanted to make sure I was good first ordering salt tomorrow and will do a few water changes then add first fish.

 

[Garf]

No I wanted to make sure I was good first ordering salt tomorrow and will do a few water changes then add first fish.

Brandon is referring to bringing in parasites to the display by not running a quarantine protocol. It’s always a high risk, especially in new tanks, that can have excasserbating stressors.

 

[brandon429]

the way disease works is that fish coming in must have been in quarantine/observation by someone for quite a while before you add them


if you buy pet store fish and add them without preps, they bring in disease even though they may not be symptomatic at the time and pollute the tank. all fish then have to be removed, the tank ran fishless for 90 days, then redone quarantine for fish going back.


so if you add pet store fish without doing that, most will be dead by March about 80-90% likely based on fish disease post patterns for tanks under eight months of age. the tank will harbor small disease components that reinfect all new additions until you fallow out the tank per the links in the thread above under fish disease.

unfortunately it works opposite of freshwater fish buying where the healthy specimens tend to fare well. skipped in prep, the drop offs from prior dirty fish end up killing the marine healthy specimens, there's no way around this in marine cycling and most just ignore it, buy the fish, replace as needed. thats where the term bucketloads of waste comes from.

every bad thing people try to prevent in a cycle by carefully managing nitrite directly happens six mos later due to skipping disease protocols.

 

[Reef craze]

Stocking timeline



2 weeks: 1st fish (could add 2 small fish) like clowns or chromis



3 weeks: 2nd fish (could add 2 small fish) like goby or wrasse



1 month: clean up crew



Add 1 new fish every 2 weeks only adding a total of 6 fish



3 months: first corals (mostly soft coral and a few lps)



6 months: more challenging coral (scoly and meat coral)



1 year: anemone

this was my year goal.



15 months: sps

 

[Reef craze]

Yeah I see your point of disease in reef tanks. I’ll look for your thread on disease protocols