How do you feel about?

[Nanofins]

I fragged it two weeks ago and can't even give it away cause so many people have it. I paid that much cause I wanted it so I don't mind. But its crazy how it has no value anymore.

In a way, this should be a sign of great progress and development for those of us in this hobby. I was just thinking the other day just how amazingly easy it has become for so many all over to simply put a small coral fragment into their system with confidence that this tiny sample of tissue will become a beautiful addition to their captive reefs. Who would have thought that there could be a point where it would be such an assured thing that we could not only take something like a chalice, or a goniopora, or even acro, and have it live, but grow so fast that we and others could fill the market in a year's (or so) time and drive the cost down to a fraction of it's start? I find this to be an encouraging thing.

 

[reef-lover]

I am afraid that the days of honest collecting are behind us :( I do not feel the same way about collecting anymore. A large reason for it is the extra drama that goes with it. Some people are tired of threads like these, but they restore hope for people like me that still look at this hobby as a hobby and not a way to make money.

So True Mark...You almost have to get out of the hobby before you lose your love of it. Last month, I GAVE away (not sold) my LINEAGED Monster Mash and Pink ******* for this very reason. Every time I'd post a pic, I'd get bombarded with PM's to sell or trade , and when I'd turn people down, I'd get a few replies of what a point of sale I was. I know, most people on here will say I'm crazy or an butt, I know I could have gotten FAT CASH for a 6 eyed MM, but, I always go back to what it is that I'm in the hobby for, and what it is that got me into the hobby...It's Love...not money.

MM-GONE, Maybe who I gave it to will chime in ...

 

[Psychographic]

In a way, this should be a sign of great progress and development for those of us in this hobby. I was just thinking the other day just how amazingly easy it has become for so many all over to simply put a small coral fragment into their system with confidence that this tiny sample of tissue will become a beautiful addition to their captive reefs. Who would have thought that there could be a point where it would be such an assured thing that we could not only take something like a chalice, or a goniopora, or even acro, and have it live, but grow so fast that we and others could fill the market in a year's (or so) time and drive the cost down to a fraction of it's start? I find this to be an encouraging thing.

It's a shame that money has become more important than the quote above.

 

[SDguy]

So True Mark...You almost have to get out of the hobby before you lose your love of it. Last month, I GAVE away (not sold) my LINEAGED Monster Mash and Pink ******* for this very reason. Every time I'd post a pic, I'd get bombarded with PM's to sell or trade , and when I'd turn people down, I'd get a few replies of what a point of sale I was. I know, most people on here will say I'm crazy or an butt, I know I could have gotten FAT CASH for a 6 eyed MM, but, I always go back to what it is that I'm in the hobby for, and what it is that got me into the hobby...It's Love...not money.

MM-GONE, Maybe who I gave it to will chime in ...

While I understand your point of view and the concept of the situation, I'm shocked that you will let a bunch of random people basically make the decision for you as to whether or not you will keep and enjoy some very beautiful corals. I'd sooner stop using using online forums and postign pics. JMO.

 

[mpoletti]

While I understand your point of view and the concept of the situation, I'm shocked that you will let a bunch of random people basically make the decision for you as to whether or not you will keep and enjoy some very beautiful corals. I'd sooner stop using using online forums and postign pics. JMO.

Peter, the sad part is that a lot of my friends that have left the hobby over the last few years. With that, some of my closest friends are spread across the country. I used to enjoy going to frag swaps and vendor shows to meet and greet, but now I do not even enjoy them as much. When I do and look around, it frustrates me to see freshly cut wild pieces being sold as original collector pieces that have been around for years.

I also know this is only a small part of the whole picture and that is why I am debating on completely redoing the tank. It would provide something to take my mind off my negative perception towards the greed in the hobby.

 

[SDguy]

When the coral scene sucks (and it has for me too), I focus on my fish :D Just a thought....

 

[mpoletti]

When the coral scene sucks (and it has for me too), I focus on my fish :D Just a thought....

I have been thinking of new equipment, but I'm not sure if I want to drop the coin for new toys these days. I guess I should cut up my corals and see how much I can get for them :nerd:

 

[Nicks387]

I see everyones point but what I can't see is why any of this would make someone leave the hobby. If you enjoy the hobby and you are in it for the collect ability or beauty or whatever got you into it for then what do you care about all this other stuff. I do my research and I think I can tell if the piece I am being sold is the real deal or not. Further If you don't like the Aussie pieces don't buy them. As far as the vender's go its like beer in a bar. People are willing to pay for an $8 dollar beer at a sporting event so thats what they cost. You know the vendor is paying 50 cents for it yet you still buy it for $8 dollars because at the time thats what its worth to you. People do not realize that not all venders are hobbyists, some just like any other business owners do it strictly for a living, these people do not care about why you are in the hobby they want to put food on the table and if they have a piece that was 25 dollars but some fool is willing to pay 1000 dollars for it then good for them. Just don't be the fool and you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Nicks387]

I am not pointing any fingers here either, just my 2 cents

 

[mpoletti]

nicks, those are all great points especially the beer but since I do not drink anymore, I guess I chose not to buy the $8 price tag :)

Like I mentioned before, for me, this is just a part of the problem as why I have a negative perception towards the greed in the hobby. I have been offered plenty of $$$ for my tank, system and collection and I am still around. Its never been about the money. I guess I woke up one day and finally saw that this is the way its going to be; and I could either like it or not.

Since this is an interent discussion forum where we can come and voice our opinions, I started the thread. If it has raised an eyebrow or two, thats cool. No matter what, its nice just knowing that other hobbyists have similar thoughts :)

 

[Nicks387]

I agree. I hate for example that every other tri color is now called a Garf Bonsai. One of the problems is todays economy, when the economy goes south trends or scams like these rise. Everyone is looking to make a fast buck, It makes me more mad that people who I consider assets to the reefing community would be so discouraged as to quit over it. I cant always afford to get all the nice corals I want so If I want an expensive piece then I have to say to myself I will pay the $200 an eye to get it but as soon as I can I have to sell an eye and recoup my investment so my kids can go to school or I can pay my mortgage LOL I dont believe this to be wrong but to deliberately sell counterfeit corals is just scummy. The thing is that this is the world we live in and we as consumers have to be wary this is why I only buy from reputable reefers and members of local clubs that I trust. The vendors doing shady stuff like this will get whats coming because more and more people will do the same.

 

[dieselab]

I have been thinking of new equipment, but I'm not sure if I want to drop the coin for new toys these days. I guess I should cut up my corals and see how much I can get for them :nerd:

I will take what you don't want.:wink:

 

[Psychographic]

I see everyones point but what I can't see is why any of this would make someone leave the hobby. If you enjoy the hobby and you are in it for the collect ability or beauty or whatever got you into it for then what do you care about all this other stuff. I do my research and I think I can tell if the piece I am being sold is the real deal or not. Further If you don't like the Aussie pieces don't buy them.

Because believe it or not, it's trickling down to average corals. Even plain stuff is getting expensive.

Also many people are in this for the camaraderie, this is causing problems between both sides to the point where some people don't think it's worth the aggrevation.

 

[Deahtop]

Also many people are in this for the camaraderie, this is causing problems between both sides to the point where some people don't think it's worth the aggrevation.

the constant sniping the vendors are doing to each other is making this forum feel very uneasy. people need to stop fueling these type of threads.

 

[mpoletti]

Also many people are in this for the camaraderie, this is causing problems between both sides to the point where some people don't think it's worth the aggrevation.

Agreed

 

[Sikryd]

Agreed

+1

I understand both sides of the fence and don't know where to stand.

I see the point of the work that goes into a legitimate store/vendor (not backyard chop shops) and profit is a well deserved thing. Obviously though the profit margin has been raised to the 300%+ level otherwise there wouldn't be soooooooo many new vendors alllll the time.

I was part of the problem as well. I shelled out big money on chalices, knowing that some of them would be fraggable later on and that I could at least get some money back on my investment.

I also understand from the consumer view that it is just crazy now to the point where there is more people trying to make a buck then there are true hobbiest that enjoy it for the reefing/animal aspect, as well as the comraderie and friendships that are built on the love of the hobby and sharing it with others. I have said for a long time now, if it was just the wife and I enjoying the tank it wouldn't be nearly as much fun!

Its hard to draw the line somewhere and stick to it. But it has to be drawn somewhere and principles followed.

I know I got into the idea that it might be nice to pick up some wild colonies, color them up, then frag them out for $50, and you would STILL be ahead. I can't imagine doing it to 100 pieces, and getting them wholesale.

Someone is making a lot of money, and its about time we decide if we want to support them and their new shiny ??????

I see vendors upgrading to the craziest, nicest, redoing website, brand new state of the art setups and stores, ect. ect. ect. allllllll the time now.................

 

[Sikryd]

Oh yeah - and the blame goes the consumers like me that are spending the cash. Without us getting greedy and wanting the nicest stuff and knowing that we will be able frag it out later too, the problem wouldn't have blown up as bad.
I not too proud to admit I was part of the problem.

If people want to spend $1500 on the My Miami, thats totally cool, but we can't gripe and complain about the prices if we are still paying them.

 

[mpoletti]

Oh yeah - and the blame goes the consumers like me that are spending the cash. Without us getting greedy and wanting the nicest stuff and knowing that we will be able frag it out later too, the problem wouldn't have blown up as bad.
I not too proud to admit I was part of the problem.

Me too Chad.

A couple days after paying $200 for the superman chalice shortly after its release, I was sickened as I had never paid more than $159 for a coral and that was an echinata colony from DD two years ago. (man I was sad when that died a week or so later). Whats sad is that I had seen three other colonies like the superman, but I told myself they were different when I knew they all came through the same supplier. Sometimes we want to believe that if we are paying more for a coral it is better and so are we.... I too am guilty :(

 

[Psychographic]

Oh yeah - and the blame goes the consumers like me that are spending the cash. Without us getting greedy and wanting the nicest stuff and knowing that we will be able frag it out later too, the problem wouldn't have blown up as bad.
I not too proud to admit I was part of the problem.

If people want to spend $1500 on the My Miami, thats totally cool, but we can't ***** and complain about the prices if we are still paying them.

It's pretty rare that someone will admit to being part of the problem. My hat's off to you.