How to pair Chrysiptera damsels?

[FangsAndGames]

Wow....sooooo I'm going to push back on a loooooooot of the stuff here because I've done it. Here's how:

Buy a group of 6 damsels. They'll spend some time establishing a pecking order, and then a pair will form. I did it in a 29 gallon tank. The important part is to get a group of 6 or more, so that any aggression is evened out within the group. This also conveniently gives you a 99% chance of having at least one male and one female within the group fish can't change sex. You will see aggression, but this is normal. If any one of the fish starts to look super torn and tattered, then remove it from the tank (give it back to the fish store, nurse it back to health, whatever). If you see a pair of fish consistently swimming near each other/nesting together, then you have your pair.

A lot of people seem to forget about this method in the hobby, even though it's one of the oldest ones out there. People see "oh, they're all going to change sexes! I'll only buy 2!" while failing to take into account intraspecies aggression, and other factors necessary for determining if a fish is going to change sex or not. Yeah, saltwater fish are expensive, but this method works. I've used it on firefish and yellowtail demoiselles, and have plans to use it on randall's gobies next. Bidirectional hermaphroditism does exist, but if they're protandrous/protogynous, once they're reached their final sex, that's it; no more sex changes. And we don't know nearly enough about some fish to know "oh, they're juveniles at this stage, females at that stage, and males at that stage" especially when there's no sexual dimorphism at all.

No. Clownfish are damselfish...we forget this too...Chrysiptera in particular are known to be a protogynous (i.e. juvenile->female->male) hermaphrodites.

Yep I knew they were in the same genus and know of this method but didn’t know tank size so I soft balled

 

[Haydn]

No. Clownfish are damselfish...we forget this too...Chrysiptera in particular are known to be a protogynous (i.e. juvenile->female->male) hermaphrodites.

Although some damsels (including species of clownfish) do change sex This paper would suggest that Chrysiptera do not.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hey all,

I am a damsel fan. Set my 60 up around damsels in Jan this year. I will just give you my experience. My first fish was a yellow tail. I use to get them 3 for 3.99. If anyone can remember that price it will tell you how long I have had them. Anyway...

A big key to aggression is introducing them at the same time. Even then some just do not get along. Stay away from neon velvet, for me anyway. I started with 4 and watched 1 just terrorize the other 3 to death. The Azure, blue, and yellow tail are great. Same with both 3 and 4 stripe. I have introduced any # with no issues. The domino get big, can disrupt a sand bed, and become territorial. The 3 spot is actually a little better than the dominos. I have not gotten into jewel, Talbots or other ones. Only the 3 for 3.99 ones.

Out of this bag everyone is alive and happy except the 3 neon the 4th killed off. I have several other fish in the tank none of the damsels mess with.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Although some damsels (including species of clownfish) do change sex This paper would suggest that Chrysiptera do not.

Yeah, except Wittenrich states in his breeder's guide that C. parasema, C. taupou, AND C. hemicyanea (the lattermost being what OP stated as the fish they wanted) are all protogynous hermaphrodites. Furthermore, the paper you used, cites Fishbase as the resource on if the fish change sex. While altogether a useful source, it is not an end-all/be-all for determining if fish are gonochoristic or hermaphroditic. While it may use notable examples (like Ocellaris clownfish) and state that they are hermaphroditic, it is just as silent on gonochorism in banggai cardinals (known gonochorists), and protogyny in orchid dottybacks (a proven protogynous species in aquarium breeding).

 

[mort]

My experience with azure and yellowtail certainly agrees with wittenrich on this as well. I have "paired" dozens of these damsels without issue and within 6 months they have started breeding. The problem is people either buy them to large or get to many imo. If they are bigger then you have more chance that they will have already turned into a male, if you get to many then you increase the chance of multiple males and with insufficient space you run into problems.

I find one pair per 2X2 ft base works well.

Damsels are a huge family that have different reproductive strategies including mouth brooding, so we can't generalise and I'd rather rely on specific experience with individual species as even between genera these strategies can change. Azures and yellowtails have been bred enough commercially for us to understand their characteristics pretty well.

 

[Haydn]

Yeah, except Wittenrich states in his breeder's guide that C. parasema, C. taupou, AND C. hemicyanea (the lattermost being what OP stated as the fish they wanted) are all protogynous hermaphrodites. Furthermore, the paper you used, cites Fishbase as the resource on if the fish change sex. While altogether a useful source, it is not an end-all/be-all for determining if fish are gonochoristic or hermaphroditic. While it may use notable examples (like Ocellaris clownfish) and state that they are hermaphroditic, it is just as silent on gonochorism in banggai cardinals (known gonochorists), and protogyny in orchid dottybacks (a proven protogynous species in aquarium breeding).

This is the problem we hobbyists have, we rely on sources of information from the experts. Here we have two seemingly disagreeing. One was published in 2007, the other in 2016. I have no personal knowledge of breeding these fish and experiencing the sex change (how would I know anyway), I don't know if you have.

 

[ichthyogeek]

This is the problem we hobbyists have, we rely on sources of information from the experts. Here we have two seemingly disagreeing. One was published in 2007, the other in 2016. I have no personal knowledge of breeding these fish and experiencing the sex change (how would I know anyway), I don't know if you have.

Again, no. We have one source(Wittenrich) that definitively states that Chrysiptera damsels are protogynous hermaphrodites. The other source Biology of Damselfishes (Frederich and Parmentier, 2016), relies on a chapter written by Hattori and Casadevall, and whose data you are referencing, relies on a 2010 study by Hattori and Shibuno, and referenced from Fishbase, whose articles on C. cyanea, C. biocellata, and C. rex , as of August 2020, do not provide commentary on gonochorism or hermaphroditism, therefore leaving the question of "do they change sex?" up in the air. Which seemingly led to the author's to interpret this as "no sex change", a really bad practice for science. Keep in mind, that the Fishbase profile of C. cyanea notes that they are found in harem style groups with one male and several females OR juveniles, which is incredibly similar to how clownfish harems work except with the sex roles reversed.

Furthermore, we have another member who has chimed in about their first-hand experience (Thanks @mort !) with pairing damselfish. I have personally paired C. hemicyanea together, but due to focusing on high school and college studies, have not raised their eggs to post-meta. But that has not prevented me from reading about multiple accounts on fish breeding, many of which follow Wittenrich's literature.

 

[mort]

Wittenrich does mention with other species when fish's breeding habits are "believed to be" but not known for certain (plus his well respected reputation in the breeding world) so I personally think he is a very reliable source because like all true experts he can admit when he's not sure. It's also hard to disagree with him being one of the leading fathers of the recent aquaculture boom.
I'm not disputing other damsels, or even damsels within chrysiptera, have different strategies but on a case by case basis azure and yellowtail can definitely be paired if you get them at a small enough size.