Hydrogen Peroxide doseing for Dinophlagellates.

[Gary S]

Well after fighting dino with limited results from blackouts I'm going to buy some H2O2 (Hydrogen peroxide) to dose to reduce the remaining cells after a blackout to create a multi stage attack. All i need to know is a few brands of H2O2 that don't have stabilizers or that others have used that didn't damage their tank or inhabitants . All responses welcome and appreciated.

 

[GoVols]

From my experience:
I ran my reef too clean and it opened the gate for dino's to hit my reef.
When dino's got a hold, I made the big mistake of making more water changes and it was like adding gas to a fire :eek: :eek: :eek:

If your wanting to try the H2O2 treatment for the (one kind of) cyano strain???
It's regular 3% H2O2 that you can get at Walgreens / Dose every twelve hours / 1ml of H2O2 to every ten gallons of water that your holding.

I'll let Randy others others chime in:
But... from what I know now.
I'd dose bacteria's and keep up nutrients, to out compete the dino's.

Good luck and tagging along.

 

[Gary S]

From my experience:
I ran my reef too clean and it opened the gate for dino's to hit my reef.
When dino's got a hold, I made the big mistake of making more water changes and it was like adding gas to a fire :eek: :eek: :eek:

If your wanting to try the H2O2 treatment for the (one kind of) cyano strain???
It's regular 3% H2O2 that you can get at Walgreens / Dose every twelve hours / 1ml of H2O2 to every ten gallons of water that your holding.

I'll let Randy others others chime in:
But... from what I know now.
I'd dose bacteria's and keep up nutrients, to out compete the dino's.

Good luck and tagging along.

Now what would be the advantage of adding bacteria?

Also I'd love to point put how much I love this forum and the fast and thorough, intelegent answers the fellow members give. For the last 4 times I've turned to this community for anything from chemicals to IDing an odd hitchhiker or two, I've gotten a well explained and reinforced answer within an hour, two at worst. Anyways I digress.

@GoVols, have you eliminated dino in your tank at this point?

 

[GoVols]

have you eliminated dino in your tank at this point?

I have only had dino's one time and it was my worst nightmare that I've ever dealt with.
It took place back in 2015.

I don't have all the answers to dino's:
But... To me you need to out compete dino's with bacteria's for living space.

@Jason mack
Jason,
Can you provide some incite?

Thanks, Freddie

 

[Bob the Bass]

@Teddy Marshall

 

[GoVols]

@Gary S

How old is your reef?

Are you using RO/DI water?

Where does phosphates and nitrates test to?

And, Are you 100% sure that you have dino's?

PS: We love pictures :)

Thanks, Freddie

 

[jduong916]

From my experience:
I ran my reef too clean and it opened the gate for dino's to hit my reef.
When dino's got a hold, I made the big mistake of making more water changes and it was like adding gas to a fire :eek: :eek: :eek:

If your wanting to try the H2O2 treatment for the (one kind of) cyano strain???
It's regular 3% H2O2 that you can get at Walgreens / Dose every twelve hours / 1ml of H2O2 to every ten gallons of water that your holding.

I'll let Randy others others chime in:
But... from what I know now.
I'd dose bacteria's and keep up nutrients, to out compete the dino's.

Good luck and tagging along.

I got dinos from the exact same thing, low nutrients. I did a three day black out, dosed hydrogen peroxide (only during the blackout) and raised my nitrate to 6ppm. Once lights were on there was a little bit of dino. After about three days, totally gone. My refugium macro took off like crazy from the increased nutrients.

 

[jduong916]

I got dinos from the exact same thing. I did a three day black out, dosed hydrogen peroxide (only during the blackout) and raised my nitrate to 6ppm. Once lights were on there was a little bit of dino. After about three days, totally gone. My refugium macro took off like crazy from the increased nutrients.

 

[Gary S]

@Gary S

How old is your reef?

Are you using RO/DI water?

Where does phosphates and nitrates test to?

And, Are you 100% sure that you have dino's?

PS: We love pictures :)

Thanks, Freddie

I am using RODI, the tank is 4 months old now, both phosphates (5.0ppm) and nitrates (20ppm) are high rn but that's because I just got done with a blackout and 95% of the dino died, however against others suggestions and my own objective judgement, performed a water change (roughly 5%). I know it's dino because of the way the bubbles from in the tips of the strands, and if you put a clump of it in water, shake it and let it sit, it will clump back together. I am however not convinced it's only part of the "ugly phase". I previously had 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates and I believe that triggered it.

I've heard of people using other algae to outcompete dino and then removing whatever algea they used. However I never considered using bacteria.

 

[Gary S]

I got dinos from the exact same thing, low nutrients. I did a three day black out, dosed hydrogen peroxide (only during the blackout) and raised my nitrate to 6ppm. Once lights were on there was a little bit of dino. After about three days, totally gone. My refugium macro took off like crazy from the increased nutrients.

What brand of h2o2 did you use?

 

[Jason mack]

I have only had dino's one time and it was my worst nightmare that I've ever dealt with.
It took place back in 2015.

I don't have all the answers to dino's:
But... To me you need to out compete dino's with bacteria's for living space.

@Jason mack
Jason,
Can you provide some incite?

Thanks, Freddie

Hi , I beat Dino’s with peroxide after my no3 and po4 bottomed out for a while , I have never done a lights out on my tank , I dosed peroxide twice a day , once in the morning and once at night after lights out , my advice is as @GoVols has already stated, do not clean your glass for a couple of weeks ,let the other algae get a foot hold too out compete the Dino’s ,I did a small water change every day syphoning as much of the Dino’s out as I could, combined with adding bacteria and dosing peroxide each day ,it’s a slow process , also try reducing your whites light too 5.5 hrs a day , there are many strains of Dino’s so it’s always beter to get an ID on which Dino’s you have , take a sample too a lFS with a microscope if you can , peroxide won’t always work with all stains of Dino’s , the peroxide should be 3% with no additives.. just water .. good luck!

 

[tastyfish]

Hi there, as a survivor of a serious (and eventually toxic) species of dinoflagellates, I would offer the following advice: Don't fall into the trap of solely treating the dinoflagellates or their symptoms.

I studied probably hundreds of accounts and many, many strategies for defeating dinoflagellates and what struck me most was the fact that dinoflagellates are a pioneer species. Rapidly expanding into an ecological niche. This is why so many attempts seem to work initially, but result in a rapid return.

So, combat the dinoflagellates on multiple fronts, however be wary of using too many methods which deplete organisms that will compete with them and encourage as much biodiversity in your micro fauna and flora as possible. These are the organisms that will win the battle for you.

In my case, I used a super clean regime on PO4 and NO3, starved them of trace elements (no dosing, no water changes), high pH, and extended blackout. This weakened the dinos significantly and forced them into the water column.

During this process and for a long period afterwards, I dosed bacteria (a broad mix, such as FM UltraBak & UltraBio), added phyto, rotifiers and copepods. I also used a dose of argonite to kick start coraline growth.

By the time the dinos had recovered and were able to utilise light etc, the ecosystem was mature and prevented them expanding rapidly.

Replace the methods of knocking them back as you see fit with H2O2 or a.n.other method, but be mindful it's the competition that will win the day for you.

Good luck!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Gary S

I hope your phosphates aren't really 20ppm and that was a typo. Even 2ppm is too high. Don't cause other problems by overreacting. There is a thread about Vibrant, which other have used to take care of problems in their tanks. Not sure if it works on Dino's, but you might want to check it out.

 

[jduong916]

What brand of h2o2 did you use?

I just got it from target, I think most all H202 for cuts is like 99%+ pure.

 

[jduong916]

IMO it seems dinos come from two different scenarios, high nutrients or very low nutrients. The treatment methods seem are total opposites of each other. If you have dinos due to low nutrients, IMO bacteria should not be added because that drives nutrients even lower and the dino can out compete other algae in this environment. If you have dinos and elevated nutrients then you need to take steps to lower your nutrients, such as water changes which some people note as a bad thing when they have super low nutrients. I think it's good to start off identifying your tanks conditions (high or low nutrients) then start the treatment from there.

 

[Gary S]

I just got it from target, I think most all H202 for cuts is like 99%+ pure.

What do you have in your tank? As of currently I have mostly inverts, and that's where my concern for stabilizers come in, unless of course it's not really a problem.

 

[Gary S]

@Gary S

I hope your phosphates aren't really 20ppm and that was a typo. Even 2ppm is too high. Don't cause other problems by overreacting. There is a thread about Vibrant, which other have used to take care of problems in their tanks. Not sure if it works on Dino's, but you might want to check it out.

No my phosphates are at 5.00ppm, and my Nitrates are at 20ppm.

 

[Gary S]

Hi there, as a survivor of a serious (and eventually toxic) species of dinoflagellates, I would offer the following advice: Don't fall into the trap of solely treating the dinoflagellates or their symptoms.

I studied probably hundreds of accounts and many, many strategies for defeating dinoflagellates and what struck me most was the fact that dinoflagellates are a pioneer species. Rapidly expanding into an ecological niche. This is why so many attempts seem to work initially, but result in a rapid return.

So, combat the dinoflagellates on multiple fronts, however be wary of using too many methods which deplete organisms that will compete with them and encourage as much biodiversity in your micro fauna and flora as possible. These are the organisms that will win the battle for you.

In my case, I used a super clean regime on PO4 and NO3, starved them of trace elements (no dosing, no water changes), high pH, and extended blackout. This weakened the dinos significantly and forced them into the water column.

During this process and for a long period afterwards, I dosed bacteria (a broad mix, such as FM UltraBak & UltraBio), added phyto, rotifiers and copepods. I also used a dose of argonite to kick start coraline growth.

By the time the dinos had recovered and were able to utilise light etc, the ecosystem was mature and prevented them expanding rapidly.

Replace the methods of knocking them back as you see fit with H2O2 or a.n.other method, but be mindful it's the competition that will win the day for you.

Good luck!

How did you control nitrates during the period when you stopped water changes. Rn I'm attempting to culter pods but having limited success. What would you say worked the best for competition for the dinos?

 

[tastyfish]

IMO it seems dinos come from two different scenarios, high nutrients or very low nutrients. The treatment methods seem are total opposites of each other. If you have dinos due to low nutrients, IMO bacteria should not be added because that drives nutrients even lower and the dino can out compete other algae in this environment. If you have dinos and elevated nutrients then you need to take steps to lower your nutrients, such as water changes which some people note as a bad thing when they have super low nutrients. I think it's good to start off identifying your tanks conditions (high or low nutrients) then start the treatment from there.

Data shows that Dinoflagellates take advantage not of high or low nutrient levels, but imbalances and gaps (for example the availability of trace elements, light spectrum etc) to multiply and expand faster than competing organisms. It's not as clear cut as your nutrients are too high or too low.

The idea of competition (not limited to bacteria) is that if the ecosystem is balanced, there is no ecological niche for the dinoflagellates to expand into without competition.

The best approaches are those which take a holistic view of the tank and all conditions, including accurate ID of the micro organism being combated and using information on vulnerabilities to help knock them back.

However knocking one dinoflagellate bloom without resolving the underlying issues, often results in a secondary dinoflagellate bloom, of either the same, or a different species.

I've not personally used H2O2, but have spoken to some who have and it can be an effective way to knock back populations, allowing measures to be taken to redress the balance and resolve the underlying issues.

Hope this makes sense.

(Now 3 years clear of dinoflagellate outbreak, which covered over 1/3rd of rockwork()

 

[Salty Carlo]

I use a food grade H202 and dosed 1ml for every 10gal in the morning and dosed seachem stability in the evening without an issue.