Hydrogen peroxide ORP and ich

[juanmanuelsanchez]

I'm confused about the dosing that the study makes reference. It says that 100 mg/L would have a 92% efficiency aprox.

How you translate that to ML per liter or ML to gallons?

Also I'm using normal hydrogen peroxide at 3%...

Thanks again for the help

 

[brandon429]

We use one ml per ten gallons of water, 3%, for most in tank work, because that's the max dilution one can recommend in giant peroxide threads and not accumulate pages of loss from people dosing it into the water

However many times a day you dose it is tbd, it's affected by any organic stores in the tank such as any form of sandbed

Full production lighting should be lowered and sustained during treatment if you're determined to try it as a liquid doser vs the oxydator, which is a metered dose and whether or not it's gas or liquid dispense doesn't matter, oxydators are known safe and liquid dosing is much stronger. Running white spectrum at normal levels is your coral bleaching risk when stacking oxidizers, cloudy week simulation is indicated.

We know very well how much peroxide a given reef tank can take without harm going off the hundreds of collected peroxide algae battle threads...thousands actually. Whether that coincides with ld50 levels in the study not sure about crypto, but most corals are tolerant of this dose. I know sps tanks that used up to 4 ml per ten gallons for Dino battles, no loss. Risky. 1:10 is safe *as far as liquid peroxide dosing goes/your risk and it's all quite variable and up to your choice, very neat thread to see it applied.

Known sensitives regarding peroxide and reef tanks, liquid dosing (the oxydator is safe for all tanks fw and saltwater, it's just weaker)
Hermodice fireworms and lysmata cleaners can die in any concentration
Decorative macro, ats scrubbers
Xenia withers sometimes
Coralline can bleach at 1:10 especially w no lighting adjusts per recommend
Anemones get mad and close up


I've never seen any species of marine fish react poorly -as a pattern- across fifty thousand peroxide posts. Corals too, I can't think of any that can't tolerate 1:10 dosing but how many times a day/week is anyone's guess. Clams are pretty tolerant we show.

Oxydators are so safe you just install them, no lighting tweaks needed. They're weaker than liquid dosing, safer though, with no known sensitives but liquid dosing has the lions share of example work we can locate on this forum and most others. You're on new ground.

 

[juanmanuelsanchez]

Well I'm running 100 ml for 132 gallons two times a day.

So that's way above the recommended dose. So far I have not seen any harm in corals. Including the sps (millepora and acropora included)

As far as the fish goes I can't seem to see any real improvement so far. The ones that are affected are still affected. Some of them are still hiding but eating from time to time.

The clownfish is very lethargic today. Didn't eat anything.

 

[juanmanuelsanchez]

Another question would be. How many hours is hydrogen peroxide effective? Because if I have to guide using the orp measure about 3 hours later it's back to normal.

 

[brandon429]

I would have said four, really neat test confirmation there.

 

[juanmanuelsanchez]

Well... All I can say for now it's that it was a failure. Lost some fishes in the process. Now some of them are in the quarantine tank as in trying to catch the rest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I have long been perplexed by the drop in ORP that some folks see on dosing hydrogen peroxide and I do not see any direct chemical explanation for it.

Most likely, IMO, are processes like cells breaking open and releasing low ORP compounds.

 

[juanmanuelsanchez]

FWIW, I have long been perplexed by the drop in ORP that some folks see on dosing hydrogen peroxide and I do not see any direct chemical explanation for it.

Most likely, IMO, are processes like cells breaking open and releasing low ORP compounds.

Well it was not the ich that's for sure hahaha. It's also an immediate reaction. So you don't see slow drop... It's a inmeadiate one, it also takes two to three hours to recover.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well it was not the ich that's for sure hahaha. It's also an immediate reaction. So you don't see slow drop... It's a inmeadiate one, it also takes two to three hours to recover.

If the bacteria idea is correct, it might only be the ones right nearby the drop as it is added.

 

[Lasse]

FWIW, I have long been perplexed by the drop in ORP that some folks see on dosing hydrogen peroxide and I do not see any direct chemical explanation for it.

Most likely, IMO, are processes like cells breaking open and releasing low ORP compounds.

When the H2O2 is broken down to H2O and O by catalysation- is not that a classic reduction process? When the free O or OH is attached to another atom or molecule - is that not a classic oxidation process?

Note - we are dealing with alkaline water.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Well... All I can say for now it's that it was a failure. Lost some fishes in the process. Now some of them are in the quarantine tank as in trying to catch the rest.

Because of the short reaction time I think that H2O2 or ozone need to be dosed in a contionous mode in order to be effective against parasites that hatch during a prolonged time.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When the H2O2 is broken down to H2O and O by catalysation- is not that a classic reduction process? When the free O or OH is attached to another atom or molecule - is that not a classic oxidation process?

Note - we are dealing with alkaline water.

Sincerely Lasse

The breakdown does not make reducing species (those that would lower ORP) that I am aware of.

Wikipedia has a nice discussion of its breakdown and its redox properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

The only mention of its ability to act as a reducing species is in the presence of very strong oxidizers (hypochlorite and permanganate, for example) which should not be present in the water in the first place. it it did act as a reducing agent, the resulting product must be a stronger oxidizer than hydrogen peroxide, which does not imply an ORP drop.

 

[Lasse]

The breakdown does not make reducing species (those that would lower ORP) that I am aware of.

Wikipedia has a nice discussion of its breakdown and its redox properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

The only mention of its ability to act as a reducing species is in the presence of very strong oxidizers (hypochlorite and permanganate, for example) which should not be present in the water in the first place. it it did act as a reducing agent, the resulting product must be a stronger oxidizer than hydrogen peroxide, which does not imply an ORP drop.

Most likely, IMO, are processes like cells breaking open and releasing low ORP compounds.

However - something happens. You do not get this reaction if you add O3 (as far as I know) - which also will cause the thing that you say in post 27


However - there is an interesting point here. I use an oxidator - an equipment that release small amount of H2O2 for 24/7. I do not see any drop in ORP - When my orp will decrease in a general manner it means that the Oxidator have to be recharged and when this is done - I do not see a dip - only a slow rise to the normal ORP level.This indicate that it is the amount added at a certain time that intially will drop the ORP.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

I'm probably getting in over my head here..... Doesn't an ORP probe measure read the rate at which oxidation/reduction processes are occurring and not the amount of each actually in the water?

 

[Lasse]

I'm probably getting in over my head here..... Doesn't an ORP probe measure read the rate at which oxidation/reduction processes are occurring and not the amount of each actually in the water?

As I understand it - the ORP value will give you a hint which process is strongest (which will dominate) at a given time and the relative strenght of it - . +mV -> oxidation dominate; - mV -> reduction dominate; 0 mV they are equal

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Ich mainly survives on living host. If using an oxidizer (H2O2) or ozone, etc.... one issue that arises is oxidizers don't discriminate
organic matter (fish flesh or ich), finding the right oral meds might be the key. Unfortunately you do have to quarantine all fish

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

However - something happens. You do not get this reaction if you add O3 (as far as I know) - which also will cause the thing that you say in post 27


However - there is an interesting point here. I use an oxidator - an equipment that release small amount of H2O2 for 24/7. I do not see any drop in ORP - When my orp will decrease in a general manner it means that the Oxidator have to be recharged and when this is done - I do not see a dip - only a slow rise to the normal ORP level.This indicate that it is the amount added at a certain time that intially will drop the ORP.

Sincerely Lasse

As I said, this result has perplexed me and I do not have a perfect explanation. :)