Hydros Maven is Delayed

[nickng]

You cannot make any setting changes without the wifi and internet connections. In most cases once you have things setup that will not be a big issue until wifi and the internet can be restored.

Didn’t know that, so there’s no way to change settings on Hydros if I have local WiFi ie a LAN, but no external internet connection to outside world?
I think with apex as long as there is a local area network and computer I can change apex settings by connecting to the apex brain via the ip address associated with the apex brain? Could be wrong.

 

[n2585722]

Didn’t know that, so there’s no way to change settings on Hydros if I have local WiFi ie a LAN, but no external internet connection to outside world?
I think with apex as long as there is a local area network and computer I can change apex settings by connecting to the apex brain via the ip address associated with the apex brain? Could be wrong.

The settings changes are uploaded from the app to the Hydros cloud and then each of the controllers download the settings from the cloud.

 

[nickng]

As they engineered it yes. And of course its structural so it cannot be easily (or affordably) changed. I get it.

But it didn't have to be that way, and while the redundancy aspect is a plus...reliable connectivity is better...for me at least. Personal I know. I also don't know if having 17 controllers is the majority use case here. Most people only have a handful within a few feet of each other.

At the end of the day the limitation you defend Hydros with is a limitation they designed. Its not a law of nature or engineering they were bound by. They don't get a pass because of it.

Won’t it be possible just to create one hydros unit with hardwired to Ethernet capability and every other module communicates via a daisy chain link to that module whenever WiFi is not available?

 

[n2585722]

Won’t it be possible just to create one hydros unit with hardwired to Ethernet capability and every other module communicates via a daisy chain link to that module whenever WiFi is not available?

You can use an access point setup with a different name than you regular wifi channels and hardwire that to your router. Then setup the Hydros controllers and wifi devices to that access point if you need to do that. At this time each controller independently communicates with the Hydros cloud over the internet.

 

[jmcdona6]

Won’t it be possible just to create one hydros unit with hardwired to Ethernet capability and every other module communicates via a daisy chain link to that module whenever WiFi is not available?

Maybe. I've been told no by the Hydros fan boys...some of which I know are very familiar with the backend architecture and behind the scenes. I've been told yes others who also seem knowledgeable. Not a engineer. No idea.

My guess is that even if it were possible, its a fix that addresses an issue afflicting a minority of their users. And even those users, many like myself, found a way to make it work. Why revisit a strategic decision they made on their product years ago with everything that entails vs focusing development on new product that grows their business?

That last bit I don't say with malice. I am a businessman myself. I get it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can use an access point setup with a different name than you regular wifi channels and hardwire that to your router. Then setup the Hydros controllers and wifi devices to that access point if you need to do that. At this time each controller independently communicates with the Hydros cloud over the internet.

Lazy architecture — especially given that each unit has a full fledged MCU.

I assume built on somebody else’s IoT SaaS. One way or the other, the more I find out, the more turned off that I am. At this point, given what I have come to know, you could gift me a complete system and pay me to use it — and I would flatly turn it down. While it may work for you and other's, it is the antithesis of what I consider good design or acceptable use constraints. These are life support system and there is absolutely no excuse for lack of full local control and autonomy from off site SaaS.

 

[n2585722]

Lazy architecture — especially given that each unit has a full fledged MCU.

I assume built on somebody else’s IoT SaaS. One way or the other, the more I find out, the more turned off that I am. At this point, given what I have come to know, you could gift me a complete system and pay me to use it — and I would flatly turn it down. While it may work for you and other's, it is the antithesis of what I consider good design or acceptable use constraints. These are life support system and there is absolutely no excuse for lack of full local control and autonomy from off site SaaS.

Not sure that is any different than other manufacturers nowadays. Most have cloud services that the devices have to go through. That includes Kamoer, Mastertronic and Sicce as others that do this. Even the Archon's I have I can only access now through Firefox as the other web browsers have made changes which makes them no longer compatible with the Archon. Digital Aquatics is not around to make any changes in the Archon so it will not work with the other browsers so once Firefox gets changed where it no longer works then the Archon's will be worthless even though you can still change the programming in them as long as they still communicate with the web browsers. I also have an iPad that is no longer usable since I cannot update it's IOS and that keeps me from updating any of the apps since the newer versions of the apps are no longer compatible with the IOS on it. The web browsers on it will no longer access the webpages since a lot of the webpages have been updated and are no longer compatible with the older web browsers so I had to buy another iPad. So any electronic device you get now may only be good for a few years before it becomes obsolete anyway.

 

[braaap]

My WiFi strips work fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not sure that is any different than other manufacturers nowadays

Of course it is. Profilux can be run and fully programmed locally. But falling back to “well other’s work that way” is still an excuse.

. Most have cloud services that the devices have to go through.

Using a cloud service and being wholly depends on it are very different things.

That includes Kamoer, Mastertronic and Sicce as others that do this.

The same critique goes for them as well — Kamoer and Mastertronic leave a lot to be desired also. I can control my Sicce pumps via GHL — but if that were not the case and they required Sicce’s cloud — deal breaker.

So any electronic device you get now may only be good for a few years before it becomes obsolete anyway.

That is an entirely different and broad subject that and has little to do with this conversation.

 

[ingchr1]

The settings changes are uploaded from the app to the Hydros cloud and then each of the controllers download the settings from the cloud.

So what happens if thier cloud goes down or you have no internet service? You can't make changes?

Worst case, what if they go out of business or end the Hydros line?

 

[n2585722]

So what happens if thier cloud goes down or you have no internet service? You can't make changes?

Worst case, what if they go out of business or end the Hydros line?

It will not matter if they go out of business since even one that does not require the cloud will still eventually become unreachable. I have a Archon that now only one web browser can access it. The other web browsers have changed things to the point that they can no longer be used to access the controller. Digital aquatics is no longer around to change the webpages in the controller so they are compatible with the new web browsers. I guess I can still use my older iPad that can no longer access the current webpages on the web since the IOS cannot be updated which also prevents me from updating the web browsers so it is no longer useful to browse the internet. Once you have it setup then you are not usually making changes that often. I went 5 days straight without internet access at home. I could still access it using bluetooth and could override outputs to off, auto or on. You can setup the emergency mode now to make it easier to use bluetooth when you have no internet. Also now you can also change to the different modes. So I let it run for the 5 days and checked on the inputs and outputs using bluetooth until I got the internet back up.

 

[Dom_P]

The settings changes are uploaded from the app to the Hydros cloud and then each of the controllers download the settings from the cloud.

So what happens if thier cloud goes down or you have no internet service? You can't make changes?

Worst case, what if they go out of business or end the Hydros line?

I haven’t used it. But there is an “emergency mode” to access the controller via Bluetooth

 

[n2585722]

I haven’t used it. But there is an “emergency mode” to access the controller via Bluetooth

Yes there is but there are restrictions. You can override the outputs from off, auto or on and change the modes. You can also check on the inputs. You cannot make any setting changes until you get access to the cloud again.

 

[Dom_P]

I haven’t used it. But there is an “emergency mode” to access the controller via Bluetooth

Yes there is but there are restrictions. You can override the outputs from off, auto or on and change the modes. You can also check on the inputs. You cannot make any setting changes until you get access to the cloud again.

That’s good enough for a temporary outage. If CV goes out of business there would be no more updates or support, so I’d be looking for a new controller at that point anyways given the investment in aquarium and livestock

 

[BZOFIQ]

Of course it is. Profilux can be run and fully programmed locally. But falling back to “well other’s work that way” is still an excuse.

And so can APEX, the classic and A2 variants do. Somebody else can confirm if there is local access on A3, dont have one yet. No need to apex fusion for full on setup/control.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Yes there is but there are restrictions. You can override the outputs from off, auto or on and change the modes. You can also check on the inputs. You cannot make any setting changes until you get access to the cloud again.

So no go if your ISP is down? oh boy!

 

[Dom_P]

Yes there is but there are restrictions. You can override the outputs from off, auto or on and change the modes. You can also check on the inputs. You cannot make any setting changes until you get access to the cloud again.

So no go if your ISP is down? oh boy!

If your ISP is down you can always setup a WiFi hotspot on your phone in a pinch

 

[n2585722]

So no go if your ISP is down? oh boy!

If there is no internet you can still access it and override outputs and check inputs but that is for temporary use. I had no internet for 5 days straight due to an ice storm and the bluetooth access came in handy for checking on things. I have most things automated so it ran without issues during that time frame.

 

[BZOFIQ]

If your ISP is down you can always setup a WiFi hotspot on your phone in a pinch

Forgot this is Wi-Fi (like the A2, A3 apex) - I've always been wired kind of guy.


Ethernet has never failed me, can't say the same for spotty wireless setups I see tons of everywhere.

 

[BZOFIQ]

If there is no internet you can still access it and override outputs and check inputs but that is for temporary use. I had no internet for 5 days straight due to an ice storm and the bluetooth access came in handy for checking on things. I have most things automated so it ran without issues during that time frame.

This may or may not be an issue depending on ones setup.

Local access is always good to have in case of a need of a fall back.