Hydros Maven is Delayed

[n2585722]

Apex literally has step by step programming. And its programming is basic math terms. If, then, and, or. It is VERY simple. Meanwhile Hydros uses terms I’ve never heard of or used. Scheduling that doesn’t make sense. And it also can’t be tuned nearly as well as an Apex. And don’t get me started on the probe graphing. Yikes.

I think the Hydros settings are a lot easier to understand than what I have seen posted for the Apex. I have no issues understanding the Hydros settings but I used to make my own computers back as far as 1976. There was a lot of TTL gate logic in those that was used. The scheduling is simple if you have the start and end time set and do multiple doses it divides the time span into equal sections of time and doses at the beginning of each section. That way you can use multiple schedules where on ends at a given time and the other starts at that same time. So far I have not run into anything I wanted it to do that I could not figure out a way to get it to do what I wanted.

 

[n2585722]

The cloud/wifi dependence is a huge negative. I've actually had to modify my houses wifi infrastructure to make it more resilient. I shouldn't have to buy additional things to make it work as intended. The marketing to me isn't my style either, but their products seem well constructed and in my experience support is top notch. When I have had Neptune equipment I have always been shocked at how cheap it felt (not in the wallet unfortunately!). Hydros equipment feels quality the minute you take it out the box.

For me its the ease of the App and programing. I can modify complex schedules on my phone in-between cooking dinner. Apex can do everything it can, even more actually, but it makes you work for it.

Another happy outcome, I have also sort of fallen in love with the X10/iV Pro alkalinity testing. Super cheap reagent. Easy to maintain. Direct integration into Hydros. Easy to troubleshoot. Overpriced, but now I have it I enjoy it far more than my previous Trident...and I think the Maven will ultimately be more of the same. Cool gadget that cost too much to run and so complex you find yourself in the cabinet every other week trying to sort out an error.

I have no issues with the wifi now. I did get a new router back in December of 2023 and that fixed the wifi strip issues I was having but the reason I replaced it is because I added my new car to the wifi back then and every time I came home in it it would crash things on the wifi. With the new router there are no issue with that happening or the wifi strip issues. So far I have not found anything I wanted it to do that I have not figured out how to get it to do it. I have it controlling my mixing station, RODI, tank and also I have it doing the alkalinity testing and then dynamically dosing a KH buffer after each scheduled test.

 

[BriansBrain]

Bait and delay. It was clearly CV’s business tactic, and a shady one at that IMO, especially in a small niche hobby. No way I’d buy one based on that principle alone

 

[rtparty]

I think the Hydros settings are a lot easier to understand than what I have seen posted for the Apex. I have no issues understanding the Hydros settings but I used to make my own computers back as far as 1976. There was a lot of TTL gate logic in those that was used. The scheduling is simple if you have the start and end time set and do multiple doses it divides the time span into equal sections of time and doses at the beginning of each section. That way you can use multiple schedules where on ends at a given time and the other starts at that same time. So far I have not run into anything I wanted it to do that I could not figure out a way to get it to do what I wanted.

Have you used both Apex and Hydros? Or only Hydros?

 

[n2585722]

Have you used both Apex and Hydros? Or only Hydros?

I have used the Digital Aquatics controllers and Hydros. The Hydros was an easy jump from Digital Aquatics controllers. I even had them passing signals back and forth when I first started with the Hydros controllers. I have only seen people post the Apex code and it is greek to me.

 

[braaap]

Have you used both Apex and Hydros? Or only Hydros?

He has never used Neptune.

I have used the Digital Aquatics controllers and Hydros. The Hydros was an easy jump from Digital Aquatics controllers. I even had them passing signals back and forth when I first started with the Hydros controllers. I have only seen people post the Apex code and it is greek to me.

I have used DA, Neptune and Hydros. DA is/was so dated that it couldn't even compare to the others. Neptune coding is literally so easy. Especially after they added the tasks that they did that will walk you step by step to program every single thing you want.

Meanwhile Hydros takes 5+ steps to do what Apex does in 1. That is fine. But marketing on ease of programming is wrong.

Hydros is hands down the higher quality component though. I can not complain about that aspect.

 

[BeanAnimal]

IThere is nothing simple about getting this to work…Maybe it sounds simple, but from an engineering standpoint it isn’t.

No, the point is that there really isn’t any complexity in the engineering. These are straight forward titrations with color or pH endpoints. Precision dosing is not complicated. Measuring pH or color is not complicated. They may appear complicated to you, but they are not complicated

If I had more time I would build my own — or at the very least rebuild the reefbot hardware and use my own software. I don’t have time.

 

[n2585722]

He has never used Neptune.



I have used DA, Neptune and Hydros. DA is/was so dated that it couldn't even compare to the others. Neptune coding is literally so easy. Especially after they added the tasks that they did that will walk you step by step to program every single thing you want.

Meanwhile Hydros takes 5+ steps to do what Apex does in 1. That is fine. But marketing on ease of programming is wrong.

Hydros is hands down the higher quality component though. I can not complain about that aspect.

This is my ATO outputs for my Hydros. The only reason for the second output is I started using a Sole for the ATO pump the first output is the original output I used with a Hydros simple doser. The first 3 screenshots are the original ATO output. It has 5 inputs which all have to be active with no forced depends on for the output to come on. The inputs are sump ATO level, leak 42g ( leak at the tank ), leak RODI ( leak where the ATO pump is located in the garage ), DI Low ( DI reservoir is low ) and 42G sump high ( The sump is overfull ). The combiner mode AND is what requires all the inputs to be active. Combiner mode OR would be only one active for output to be on. I no longer have an output device set on this output since it is used in the depends on of the output for the Sole pump to control it. If any of the inputs have an issue it will stay off or turn off. That is what the input dependency setting does. I also have the advanced settings enabled so I can control how long it can stay on and control minimum off times and minimum on times. The depends on another output I setup called ATO ok. If the system is in the middle of a AWC sequence this output prevents any ATO action until it is complete. The last screenshot is of the actual pump output and it is set to run constantly at 55ml a minute. The on and off is controlled by the depends on settings which is set to the original ATO output and the dependency mode is set to off if off. To me this is quite simple to setup, but I have had over 4 years experience on the Hydros controllers.

 

[BriansBrain]

He has never used Neptune.



I have used DA, Neptune and Hydros. DA is/was so dated that it couldn't even compare to the others. Neptune coding is literally so easy. Especially after they added the tasks that they did that will walk you step by step to program every single thing you want.

Meanwhile Hydros takes 5+ steps to do what Apex does in 1. That is fine. But marketing on ease of programming is wrong.

Hydros is hands down the higher quality component though. I can not complain about that aspect.

I’ve had all three as well. I agree 100%. If Neptune’s build/component quality were better it would be solid. I always thought Hydros “simple programming” to be clunky

 

[reely989]

Yeah they shouldn’t have announced it so early. Pretty clear now it was to try and discourage trident NP purchases. I’d still consider buying one if it’s good but I’ll be honest, my little 400 dollar KH guardian has been great. Alk is the only thing I really need daily updates on anyway. I might just stick to that.

 

[jmcdona6]

I have no issues with the wifi now. I did get a new router back in December of 2023 and that fixed the wifi strip issues I was having but the reason I replaced it is because I added my new car to the wifi back then and every time I came home in it it would crash things on the wifi. With the new router there are no issue with that happening or the wifi strip issues. So far I have not found anything I wanted it to do that I have not figured out how to get it to do it. I have it controlling my mixing station, RODI, tank and also I have it doing the alkalinity testing and then dynamically dosing a KH buffer after each scheduled test.

I've bought a new router. Still had issues. Created a dedicated 2.4 ghz access point just for it (vs just splitting the band on the config side). Fixed the issue with Hydros mostly but now I have issues with the access point acting up occasionally. The more hardware you have, the more points of failure I guess. So I bought wifi outlets so I can remotely reset the access point. Because oddly enough, perhaps damning to Hydros being the problem, when Hydros or the Access Point fails...my overall internet and wifi is fine...its just not picking it up and it requires a hard reset to rectify.

Im sure there are several people with no issues for every one that does. My takeaway, in this and my experience with wifi through my personal and professional life, is that wifi is great until it's not. And it's common to have issues from time to time. That's not Hydros' fault...but because they have no hardwire option (like their competitor has), when it's a problem it's very frustrating. Hydros isnt cheap and neither is the stuff it's protecting. No one should have to work to make it work...

Either way really off topic!

 

[n2585722]

I've bought a new router. Still had issues. Created a dedicated 2.4 ghz access point just for it (vs just splitting the band on the config side). Fixed the issue with Hydros mostly but now I have issues with the access point acting up occasionally. The more hardware you have, the more points of failure I guess. So I bought wifi outlets so I can remotely reset the access point. Because again when Hydros or the Access Point fails...my overall internet and wifi is fine...its just not picking it up and it requires a hard reset to rectify.

Im sure there are several people with no issues for every one that does. My takeaway, in this and my experience with wifi through my personal and professional life, is that wifi is great until it's not. And it's common to have issues from time to time. That's not Hydros' fault...but because they have no hardwire option (like their competitor has), so when it's a problem it's very frustrating. Hydros isnt cheap and neither is the stuff it's protecting. No one should have to work to make it work...

Either way really off topic!

You don't have a MESH network do you? On those you do need to setup a separate access point and hardwire it to the main router. The issue is the communications between the wifi strips and the Hydros controllers on that type of network. The wifi power strips can connect to either 5ghz or 2.4ghz but they have to be on the same channel as the Hydros controllers to communicate with each other. MESH networks can switch the devices to different channels and that can cause problems. If they are on a separate access point with a different name with the controllers then that will no longer be an issue. Also some routers will see the communications between the controllers and the wifi strips as a possibles threat and also block the communications. This will especially happen on the guest channels. On the access point hard wired to the router the router see it as a hardwired connection so it does not see it as a threat. There are so many different routers and wifi systems that it would be impossible to setup something that will work with all of them all the time. I used a old router as an access point for a time without any issues. I don't have any access points setup now. It is just the router and the devices that are connected to the wifi.

 

[TheWB]

You don't have a MESH network do you? On those you do need to setup a separate access point and hardwire it to the main router. The issue is the communications between the wifi strips and the Hydros controllers on that type of network. The wifi power strips can connect to either 5ghz or 2.4ghz but they have to be on the same channel as the Hydros controllers to communicate with each other. MESH networks can switch the devices to different channels and that can cause problems. If they are on a separate access point with a different name with the controllers then that will no longer be an issue. Also some routers will see the communications between the controllers and the wifi strips as a possibles threat and also block the communications. This will especially happen on the guest channels. On the access point hard wired to the router the router see it as a hardwired connection so it does not see it as a threat. There are so many different routers and wifi systems that it would be impossible to setup something that will work with all of them all the time. I used a old router as an access point for a time without any issues. I don't have any access points setup now. It is just the router and the devices that are connected to the wifi.

Forgive my ignorance, I don’t know much at all about how routers work and what connects and what doesn’t. Since the Hydros system can’t be hardwired to the router like an Apex can, could Coralview make an expansion module for those that wanted to hardwire their system? Maybe a 2.4ghz only access point for the various Hydros units to connect to that also has a plug so it could be directly connected to the router? Is that a possibility or is it an incompatible idea due to limitations of the technology. Sorry if this is a stupid question but like I said, I’m not really up on the latest IT.

 

[n2585722]

Forgive my ignorance, I don’t know much at all about how routers work and what connects and what doesn’t. Since the Hydros system can’t be hardwired to the router like an Apex can, could Coralview make an expansion module for those that wanted to hardwire their system? Maybe a 2.4ghz only access point for the various Hydros units to connect to that also has a plug so it could be directly connected to the router? Is that a possibility or is it an incompatible idea due to limitations of the technology. Sorry if this is a stupid question but like I said, I’m not really up on the latest IT.

If you have an older router you are not using you can usually set them up as an access point and hardwire it to your main router if you need to do that. CoralVue could do what you are saying but since they would be buying the access point and reselling it it would cost more than just getting it yourself and hooking it up and not all setups will need one for them to work correctly on the existing wifi network. Even all MESH networks do not have an issue. As for wifi the only things that require it to keep working is the wifi devices such as the wifi power strips and wifi feeders. The Hydros collective communicates on the command bus so all the controllers will continue to work without wifi. The only issue would be communications with the app and the controllers. If you are at the location with the controllers you can use the emergency mode using bluetooth to connect but it is limited to changing modes and overriding outputs to either off, auto or on. You cannot make any setting changes without the wifi and internet connections. In most cases once you have things setup that will not be a big issue until wifi and the internet can be restored.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

On another note the Mastertronic essential will be here in a week or two and I’m no longer buying a maven :)

 

[BeanAnimal]

You cannot make any setting changes without the wifi and internet connections.

IMHO a very poor design choice that indicates a desire for them to not invest heavily in the architecture. Your use of the hardware that you purchased is both at their will and at the mercy of the company’s health.

If the Maven follows the same model (it clearly does with reagent check in) then it is certainly not for me.

 

[reely989]

I've bought a new router. Still had issues. Created a dedicated 2.4 ghz access point just for it (vs just splitting the band on the config side). Fixed the issue with Hydros mostly but now I have issues with the access point acting up occasionally. The more hardware you have, the more points of failure I guess. So I bought wifi outlets so I can remotely reset the access point. Because oddly enough, perhaps damning to Hydros being the problem, when Hydros or the Access Point fails...my overall internet and wifi is fine...its just not picking it up and it requires a hard reset to rectify.

Im sure there are several people with no issues for every one that does. My takeaway, in this and my experience with wifi through my personal and professional life, is that wifi is great until it's not. And it's common to have issues from time to time. That's not Hydros' fault...but because they have no hardwire option (like their competitor has), when it's a problem it's very frustrating. Hydros isnt cheap and neither is the stuff it's protecting. No one should have to work to make it work...

Either way really off topic!

Yeah it’s interesting the different experiences people have. I ended up leaving apex because of connection and software issues. Always a risk with this stuff I think.

 

[jmcdona6]

You don't have a MESH network do you? On those you do need to setup a separate access point and hardwire it to the main router. The issue is the communications between the wifi strips and the Hydros controllers on that type of network. The wifi power strips can connect to either 5ghz or 2.4ghz but they have to be on the same channel as the Hydros controllers to communicate with each other. MESH networks can switch the devices to different channels and that can cause problems. If they are on a separate access point with a different name with the controllers then that will no longer be an issue. Also some routers will see the communications between the controllers and the wifi strips as a possibles threat and also block the communications. This will especially happen on the guest channels. On the access point hard wired to the router the router see it as a hardwired connection so it does not see it as a threat. There are so many different routers and wifi systems that it would be impossible to setup something that will work with all of them all the time. I used a old router as an access point for a time without any issues. I don't have any access points setup now. It is just the router and the devices that are connected to the wifi.

I appreciate you taking the time to go through all that...but yes...I understand the difference between a 2.4 and 5.0 connection.

I had a mesh network then split out the 2.4 and 5.0 into separate bands and SSIDs. That still didn't work to resolve issues. Hydros would drop wifi connection every other week or so requiring a hard reset of Hydros. My wifi was fine...I could literally view my tank with my wifi 4K camera to watch my kid unplug and plug it back in while I was away. Bought a new router...did not resolve. Note I have a new construction gigabit fiber connection in South Florida...not operating a potato out in rural America.

That's when I switched to a dedicated hardware 2.4 access point. This has cut down the issues with the Hydros altogether (I think...). Now my issue is the access point occasionally stops working...for which I installed a wifi plug on it that will allow me to remotely power cycle it.

I think I am mostly good now after many trials and tribulations but I am more tech savvy than most. I am not necessarily blaming it on Hydros...but just pointing to the fact that wifi can have its quirks...and many people aren't armed with the knowledge to troubleshoot properly.

 

[jmcdona6]

Yeah it’s interesting the different experiences people have. I ended up leaving apex because of connection and software issues. Always a risk with this stuff I think.

Agreed. I always hardwired my Apex previously and never once recall having an issue with connectivity in multiple years of use.

I am sure its linked to thousands of different variables. Your home. Your router. Your ISP. Random router setting differences (that most people have no clue what they mean). UFO interference. Etc. That's why I don't necessarily judge the manufacturer for wifi issues...but I do sort of judge them for designing away an obvious way to circumvent those issues.

 

[n2585722]

Agreed. I always hardwired my Apex previously and never once recall having an issue with connectivity in multiple years of use.

I am sure its linked to thousands of different variables. Your home. Your router. Your ISP. Random router setting differences (that most people have no clue what they mean). UFO interference. Etc. That's why I don't necessarily judge the manufacturer for wifi issues...but I do sort of judge them for designing away an obvious way to circumvent those issues.

The big issue with hardwiring is all controllers would have to have a IP65 cat 5 port and all controllers would have to have a hardwired connection to the router. I currently have 17 controllers. I do not have a way to connect all of them to my router not to mention all the CAT 5 wiring to the router which is not in the same place as any of my controllers. I think the dedicated access point that is hardwired to the router would be easier to implement anyway. All the controllers have to have access to the internet.