Hydros Maven is Delayed
- Thread starter argiBK
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What’s the point of you confronting me? Feels a bit irrelevant to the topic, and more personal, no?
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Post in thread 'Hydros Maven is Delayed'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydros-maven-is-delayed.1082257/post-13525570
And a few other places I poked around. Could all be rumor, I suppose :)
Yeah, even if they don’t make the reagent for Hydros, the fact that CV sells a product that undermines Neptune and they said they plan to basically DRM theirs is fitting enough.
FWIW — Carlos certainly reads this thread and I don’t see any official clarification ala “No, guys the scanning is optional” kinda thing.
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FWIW — I do hope the thing is a success. Both accurate and cost effective.
I am a GHL user and won’t touch the ION Director with somebody else’s 10’ pole. It’s a shame too, as I do mostly like the ecosystem and components.
I am a GHL user and won’t touch the ION Director with somebody else’s 10’ pole. It’s a shame too, as I do mostly like the ecosystem and components.
areefer01
5000 Club Member
Thanks Bean. I remember that interaction as they seemed a bit miffed at me because I dared ask. Side note after I watched the video the day it was released I sent CV a message to give some feedback which included the ABC reagent and Neptune deal. We had a decent exchange which was nice.
Oh - on the ION. A hobbyist I know just received theirs. Will be watching to get their take on it. I'm in the Neptune ecosystem but curious how it works out.
Hope your day is well.
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So did they confirm or deny reagent DRM and or ABC?
ION-D - From many accounts it works well with a fresh probe. The issue for me is probe life and consumables consumption. It appears to use for more consumables than specified (which I predicted) even if it is running perfectly. Throw in bad tests, calibration, sensor failures, etc. and it costs a fortune to run. I did the math somewhere and it was in the dollars per valid test neighborhood.
ION-D - From many accounts it works well with a fresh probe. The issue for me is probe life and consumables consumption. It appears to use for more consumables than specified (which I predicted) even if it is running perfectly. Throw in bad tests, calibration, sensor failures, etc. and it costs a fortune to run. I did the math somewhere and it was in the dollars per valid test neighborhood.
areefer01
5000 Club Member
They didn't say anything other than what has already been said. Reagent registration is to prevent the unknown. So quality control and known source. I did not ask them who made their reagents.
I remember the post. Lots of details. It was a good one.
rtparty
7500 Club Member
It’s amazing what people will defend if they root for the logo on the helmet.
If Neptune bar coded their reagents, the pitch forks would be out from the very same people who say they don’t care if Hydros does it
If Neptune bar coded their reagents, the pitch forks would be out from the very same people who say they don’t care if Hydros does it
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Which may be a benefit if it were optional, but is otherwise just spin for preventing third party reagents.
Let's be clear for the people who may not fully understand.
If the "bar code" just has a batch number and that is recorded for traceability, that is fine as long as the reagent will work without the "bar code".
If the "bar code" is unique per refill -- serialized in such a way that it can't be defeated -- and the maven requires scanning such a "bar code" to use -- then that is locking the device to branded consumables -- which by almost any measure, is not allowed by current consumer protection laws.
The KH tester that looks for a specific color of reagent through an optical sensor is straddling the grey area fence. It can easily be defeated and they can make an argument that the color sensing just makes it easier to count drops or something. There is no grey area with the bard-code lock, if in-fact that is what is implemented.
Frankly - I would not really have given it much attention, other than the fact that they are selling ABC and undercutting Neptune who has a competing product. That there likely can't be any question that this "feature" has contributed to the delay of launch. That they all but outright admitted on video that they did not have a viable product when it was announced, and may still not have one yet. The whole context is telling, if not cringeworthy.
Controller wars -- remember how this all fits in to what GHL and Neptune or doing and the other shots that have been fired (BRS being dropped by both, etc.)
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cowfootball
Community Member
Does this thing still not have a release date?
lol
lol
I was bored and did some digging and found this actually surprising as it relates to brand locked reagents:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2646919/hp-printer-class-action-suit-ends-in-disappointment.html
areefer01
5000 Club Member
This has been mentioned previously.
The funny thing is that HP Inc is not selling Cannon or Epson ink but Coral Vue is selling ABC reagents for use in the Neptune Trident.
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HP case is very interesting and deviates greatly for a few reasons.
1 - they settled and never admitted guilt (with exception of a few old printers)
2 - they burry the code in the EULA - you accept their DRM if you accept their firmware updates
1 and 2 lead to below
3 - HP is twisting the spirit of the laws "It the 3rd party toner doesn't work, it's not our fault" even thought they are usin encrypted DRM to prevent it from working
and that leads to (4) it still has not fully played out in court (by HPs design) because they drag out the process until the complaints can be settled with them not admitting fault or it ever reaching ajudication -- where they know they are likely to loose. Big money corporate war chests vs a few complainers who's council realizes a pay day is far too small and delayed to continue ;)
I’m a huge anti-Mobius person and I’m have been slowly shifting away from a bunch of Ecotech stuff. I’m close to having someone track down a bunch of Mitras for me to swamp out my XR30s. If I’m doing that, I’ve thought about considering dipping a bunch of my toes in GHLs love pool. Why the feelings on the Ionic Director?
areefer01
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There is a thread on this forum with his thoughts. I don't have it handy but if you do a search on ION or ION Director or something along those lines you should see a couple of threads.
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Cost of unit.
Cost of consumables.
Consumables consumption.
The 5 year per test cost (to me) staggering.
I love my Mitras, am 75/25 on the small head dosers and love the maxi.
The Doser 3, I am sure I will love. Planetary instead of friction drive!
I loathe the dashboard and reporting.
I have little issue with the rest of the interface (programming).
I mostly love the Mitras and the KH director.
I can see how people become frustrated with support and communication, but they have been more than fair with me and worked to resolve issues that I have raised, knowing full well how critical I can be.
So I continue to be a customer, even if there are some things that bother me. as for ION-D — I am sad, as I really had hoped it would be a better fit to my expectations.
Thanks man. I don’t want to hijack this thread. I need to find a Mitras thread and ask some questions. I need to describe my scenario and see what I can reasonably expect.
cowfootball
Community Member
This product is vaporware, right? I saw they started advertising SenEye in their email marketing too.
mmorrison55
Valuable Member
I will be looking at the Mastertronic essentials. Looks promising in that it has multiple vials instead of the centralized injector that the previous model used for testing
Looks like it’s released in other countries already and will be coming to the US soon ( days or weeks).
Looks like it’s released in other countries already and will be coming to the US soon ( days or weeks).
They have the device at shows
My gut read after talking to them is that they’re trying to get accuracy and reliability down so we can get a real win in the hobby
Hydros is making a play for the throne and they want to make sure they stick the landing
Better to delay and delay and delay than dump it onto the market and have it riddled with problems
Auto testers are the most complex thing the reefing hobby has ever tried to do - nothing else even comes close - you have to mix regeants and get results and it has to be reliable and accurate and easy to clean and it can’t cost $5,000 - ooof.
Anyway that’s my read and soap box that nobody asked for
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