Hydros Maven is Delayed

[Arkayology]

FWIW: https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/abc-automated-testing-reagents-6-month-supply-coralvue/

 

[n2585722]

FWIW: https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/abc-automated-testing-reagents-6-month-supply-coralvue/

I don't think those are for the Maven.

 

[Arkayology]

I don't think those are for the Maven.

No? I just assumed so.

 

[BeanAnimal]

No? I just assumed so.

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

 

[Arkayology]

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

Yeah, I heard about this in the video CV released. I'm a bit surprised by this announcement - I never trust someone who says that I have to pay for their (and only their) product and then lock me into that product - I don't believe that "it's for quality assurance and batch consistency" bs. Huge bummer for sure. I am seriously reconsidering purchasing a Maven now. I have been reefing on and off for 15 years. I can keep using my Hannah checkers and Salifert kits on the weekends like I have been.

 

[Mattiejay6]

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

Doesn't really bother me.

 

[Mattiejay6]

Yeah, I heard about this in the video CV released. I'm a bit surprised by this announcement - I never trust someone who says that I have to pay for their (and only their) product and then lock me into that product - I don't believe that "it's for quality assurance and batch consistency" bs. Huge bummer for sure. I am seriously reconsidering purchasing a Maven now. I have been reefing on and off for 15 years. I can keep using my Hannah checkers and Salifert kits on the weekends like I have been.

out of curiosity what other reagents can you use with your salifert test kits? or maybe your Hannah, can you use different brand reagents with those?

 

[Arkayology]

out of curiosity what other reagents can you use with your salifert test kits? or maybe your Hannah, can you use different brand reagents with those?

Nope, but they cost less and last longer. Also, other automated testers will allow you to use whichever reagents you want. Why lock the customer into your specific reagents with a barcode?

 

[BZOFIQ]

I think older devices, yes? Newer (Fusion linked?) no?

I only have bunch of classics and A2s, both can be setup and run without Fusion - locally via LAN

Did something change in A3? - I dunno

 

[Mattiejay6]

Nope, but they cost less and last longer. Also, other automated testers will allow you to use whichever reagents you want. Why lock the customer into your specific reagents with a barcode?

I feel like it keeps things simple. For every one person that can actually properly do things, you have 4 that cannot. However ill be curious if they really keep up with a whole barcode system versus just a generic barcode indicating the product being used. However what other reagents would you like for them to use? Isnt ABC really the only third party reagent?

 

[n2585722]

Nope, but they cost less and last longer. Also, other automated testers will allow you to use whichever reagents you want. Why lock the customer into your specific reagents with a barcode?

The Hanna Nitrate test cost $1 a test and the Calcium cost $1.20 a test. So that is not cheap by any means when also add the other test in also. Those prices don't include shipping cost.

 

[Arkayology]

The Hanna Nitrate test cost $1 a test and the Calcium cost $1.20 a test. So that is not cheap by any means when also add the other test in also. Those prices don't include shipping cost.

Yes, but they last longer than the ABC ingredients, right? So, while it costs more per test, since I don't feel like I need to know what my params are every two hours, it saves me money in the long run. Also, I bought my last batch of Hannah reagents on sale, so it's more like .80 a test.

I guess I feel like I don't want to be stuck with some sort of subscription-based model or a company's specific reagents. Isn't it nice to have choice?

 

[backbayreef]

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

Don’t need to chew on it - I would just spit it out! That alone would infuriating and prompted me to ditch their whole ecosystem! As a matter of fact, instead of waiting, I just bought the NP on my main system and not planning to switch over to CoralVue’s ecosystem. I’m actually happy with my Trident & NP setup, so why keep waiting!

I’ve done a similar thing on HP printers - boycott all their product lines when they locked me into their stupid printer cartridges, which was absurd.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Doesn't really bother me.

Each of us is guided by our own compass, expectations and desires. The nice thing is that you don't have to agree with mine, nor do I yours. That is the nice thing about options and a somewhat free market.

I feel like it keeps things simple. For every one person that can actually properly do things, you have 4 that cannot.

"Hi - we can only offer support for our branded reagents" pretty much fixes that.
Tracking barcodes for quality, but not registering them to unlock them is a features.
DRM protected consumables is vendor lock-in (and again ironic given not only are they selling a product to undercut their competitor, but that vendor's made their name undercutting vendor lock-in). :zany-face:

However ill be curious if they really keep up with a whole barcode system versus just a generic barcode indicating the product being used.

If they spent the development time to build a system to generate, log and "enable" reagents once scanned... and that system forces customers to only buy from them, why would then abandon it?

However what other reagents would you like for them to use? Isnt ABC really the only third party reagent?

These colorimetric tests are not rocket science, they are well known reactions that have been around forever. There are dozens of jobber type chemical manufacturers. . ABC on the other hand is (was?) A one man basement operation run by a guy with a full time job at another business. This is (was?) just a side gig because he got tired of paying Neptune and decided to make the reagents himself.

out of curiosity what other reagents can you use with your salifert test kits? or maybe your Hannah, can you use different brand reagents with those?

Color cards match the reagent concentration and chemistry sold with the kit. You could use other reagents if they had the same chemistry and concentrations. You could mix your own test kits if you wanted to. There is nothing stopping you. Every one of these test kits uses known reactions and chemistry. There is nothing novel.

Even the Hanna Checkers - sure, you can mix your own reagents. You don't even need to match their concentration or endpoints, as long as you are willing to create a standard and conversion table for what is displayed on the screen.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I only have bunch of classics and A2s, both can be setup and run without Fusion - locally via LAN

Did something change in A3? - I dunno

I don't either. I am not a fan of the products, so have never owned one and can only go off of what I have read.

 

[John Neuzil]

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

Here's a thought, don't buy into Hydros if you dislike the company's direction so much.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’ve done a similar thing on HP printers - boycott all their product lines when they locked me into their stupid printer cartridges, which was absurd.

There's a can of worms here that could get opened here.

Much like what happened with HP and their toner DRM. Attempts to lock out third-party consumables have already triggered lawsuits that reshaped consumer protection laws.

In a nutshell -- manufacturers can’t enforce DRM on consumables unless there's a legitimate need to protect proprietary or patented technology. In this case, the chemistry and colorimetry involved aren’t even close to novel. If they do try to block third-party options, they may be walking straight into a consumer protection lawsuit.

Plenty of examples have set precedents in this space. The have already gone as far as forcing Taylor (makers of McDonald’s ice cream machines) to allow third-party tools and software for diagnosing and repairing their own systems. Taylor claimed their digital controls and processes were proprietary, aiming to block cheaper third-party service (and filing DRM lawsuits) -- and that argument didn’t hold up. Apple, GM, Lexmark, Jone Deere... the list of losers in this arena is large, and thus the laws have changed drastically.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Here's a thought, don't buy into Hydros if you dislike the company's direction so much.

Here's a thought...

It is an open conversation covering various relevant topics regarding the Maven -- participate in good faith, or don't at all :)

There is no need to be snarky like that. If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it or put me on ignore. If snark is your thing, there is a reefing reddit, they love that kind of stuff there!

 

[John Neuzil]

Here's a thought...

It is an open conversation covering various relevant topics regarding the Maven -- participate in good faith, or don't at all :)

There is no need to be snarky like that. If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it or put me on ignore. If snark is your thing, there is a reefing reddit, they love that kind of stuff there!

You clearly don't like the product. What's the point of constantly bad mouthing?

 

[areefer01]

No — and as irony would have it...

ABC Reagents built their name offering aftermarket, lower-cost reagents for Neptune’s Trident, openly stating that affordability and breaking vendor lock-in were the entire point — undercutting Neptune on price and principle.

And now? CoralVue — Neptune’s direct competitor in the controller space with Hydros — has tapped ABC as the official reagent supplier for their upcoming Maven auto-tester.

But here’s the kicker:
According to CoralVue themselves, the Maven will only accept serialized reagents — locking users into CoralVue-approved ABC cartridges.

So the triple irony:

• The company that made its name reverse engineering and bypassing closed reagent ecosystems… is now supplying one.
• The company claiming to be the open, hobbyist-friendly alternative… is now enforcing the same kind of vendor lock-in it once criticized.
• And that same company still sells aftermarket ABC reagents, helping hobbyists undercut their own competitor’s market share — while building a system that will deny those same freedoms to their own customers.

Chew in that for a bit. It doesn't taste good to me...

I am not discounting you but this is the second time I've heard ABC being tapped for the Maven supplier. I've not seen that referenced is why I'm asking. It seems to be assumed (likewise I'm assuming they are not).

I do not mean that disrespectful but looking for clarity. Everything else you noted about the irony is spot on.