Hydros Maven is Delayed

[JeffB418]

I think that you will find a building movement toward rejection of fully cloud dependent products. But of course, there will always be those who don't care.

I have doubts on this. The majority is about the here and now. What benefits do I get NOW, and less about the "what ifs". Commercial space has heavily evolved into the short term and disposable lifecycle. It's unfortunate but that's what the majority of the most recent consumer space has lived and breathed. And I agree with you on the pitfalls of cloud dependency, I just feel like it will never been a major concern of the masses.

 

[Dom_P]

This is beyond parody at this point. You’ve spent the entire exchange arguing semantics, reframing positions, and now you’re co-opting not just my argument but even my exact language -- “reframing,” “deflection,” “Full Stop", etc. Claiming "projection". It is all ironically laughable. You just want to argue, even though there is nothing to argue about.

Your attempt to enflame is actually what is laughable. I’ve stated simple facts. You’ve stated mostly opinion. Now you are even arguing about the words used.

I have said from the beginning that it is my opinion the the product is flawed. That’s a critique of the architecture and methodology, not of its ability to function as intended within its "design". Each time you have tried to reframe my argument, I have offered clarity and yet here we are doing it again.

That isn’t the case. I’ve not reframed any argument you’ve made. I’ve simply offered clarification where I felt your opinion was misleading.

You’ve refused to acknowledge that point, dismissed it, argued around it, then circled back to repeat it as if it somehow supports your position. Now you accuse me of deflection for calling it out? I’ve held one consistent position and repeated it throughout this entire thread, let alone in the exchanged with you.

Not true at all. I believe you inferred there were safety concerns which given your lack of experience with the product I decided to clarify.

No - you have argued the same ridiculous semantics all along, then tried to co-opt them to say I have finally agreed with you. It is laughable and you are now doubling down on it.

You prefer word salad over engineering and product design discussion. I won’t succumb to your attempts to drag me into a flame war.

Considering I’ve repeated the same core points throughout this entire thread—let alone this ridiculous side exchange with you -- and it’s you who continues to engage, move the goalposts, and twist context, I’ll happily clarify my MO:
It’s not tolerating people who argue in circles, reframe others' words, and refuse to concede when they’ve clearly misunderstood or misrepresented the discussion.

I have zero skin in the game. I made some salient points that you chose to disagree with. If you want to discuss or debate product design or engineering then I’m happy to do that. But your deflection tactics are just that.

Clearly you don’t, because that’s not even remotely my argument.

I don’t object to a closed ecosystem. What I object to is the lack of autonomous control and the absolute reliance on a cloud or 3rd party infrastructure.

That is oxymoronic. And you’ve said many times you were against DRM etc.

Again if you would like to actually have a discussion about the product and its features or lack their of, then I’m happy to discuss. The rest of your arguments are intended to enflame and I won’t engage with you on them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have doubts on this. The majority is about the here and now.

You may be correct to an extent- even if things trend the other direction, if you have no choice, you have no choice.

In spaces like this, I think we will find that the business model collapses. Cheap dev and ease of support is the allure, but the perpetual revenue erosion becomes a paradox.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’ve stated simple facts.

But not in any meaningful context to the conversation. You ignored context from jump and continue to do so.

You prefer word salad over engineering and product design discussion. I won’t succumb to your attempts to drag me into a flame war.

Drag you in, Flame war? You engaged me -- I am just responding to your varied arguments while not altering what I have said. The whole thread is here for anybody to read and our exchange spans the last two pages.

if you want to discuss or debate product design or engineering then I’m happy to do that. But your deflection tactics are just that.

My comments are and were directly related to product design. You want to instead ignore simple context and argue about the semantics of words like "flawed" and "crippled".

That is oxymoronic. And you’ve said many times you were against DRM etc.

Yes, I am fully against DRMd consumables. it appears that you now want to shift to an argument about the definition of a "closed" ecosystems and the context of my rather clear position.

Again if you would like to actually have a discussion about the product and its features or lack their of, then I’m happy to discuss.

Except, I have already clearly articulated my points and position numerous times -- We can't have a discussion if you can't respond contextually and honestly in good faith.

The rest of your arguments are intended to enflame and I won’t engage with you on them.

My position is rather clear and unchanged, and certainly not "enflaming"

To be clear: you responded as a 3rd party to an ongoing conversation.

to which you posted

And my response:

You ignored and continue to ignore simple context in favor arguing about semantics. My position has not changed in the slightest. I am saying the same thing now that I said then -- and the record is right in front if you and everyone.

Claiming I have reframed, deflected and am being inflammatory -- if not having finally come around to agreeing with you is delusional.

The entire exchange is linear and spans the 2 prior pages, right there there for the entire world to see, and moderators if they choose. I am not sure where or why you have come unglued, but maybe it is time to move on or use the ignore feature?

 

[Dom_P]

But not in any meaningful context to the conversation. You ignored context from jump and continue to do so.

Again, stop being argumentative. Your opinion is that my points are not meaningful. In reality they are facts you choose to ignore.

Drag you in, Flame war? You engaged me -- I am just responding to your varied arguments while not altering what I have said. The whole thread is here for anybody to read and our exchange spans the last two pages.

I have no varied arguments. I’ve offered factual statements. You continue to deflect with accusations of me not respecting your opinion etc. That just isn’t the case.

My comments are and were directly related to product design. You want to instead ignore simple context and argue about the semantics of words like "flawed" and "crippled".

You offered up “crippled”, not me. You tried to use these words to support your arguments. They simply mean nothing from an engineering perspective.

Yes, I am fully against DRMd consumables. it appears that you now want to shift to an argument about the definition of a "closed" ecosystems and the context of my rather clear position.

I’m shifting nothing. I’m simply stating that it seems you prefer an open ecosystem to a closed one.

Except, I have already clearly articulated my points and position numerous times -- We can't have a discussion if you can't respond contextually and honestly in good faith.

My my responses are contextual and are offered in good faith. Again it’s interesting you prefer these type of verbal attacks over facts.

My position is rather clear and unchanged, and certainly not "enflaming"

To be clear: you responded as a 3rd party to an ongoing conversation.

to which you posted

And my response:

You ignored and continue to ignore simple context in favor arguing about semantics

Again just because you say something doesn’t make it true. I provided facts about the product and its design and you provided opinion. Again there is nothing wrong with opinion but it doesn’t trump fact.

. My position has not changed in the slightest. I am saying the same thing now that I said then -- and the record is right in front if you and everyone.

Claiming I have reframed, deflected and am being inflammatory -- if not having finally come around to agreeing with you is delusional.

The entire exchange is linear and spans the 2 prior pages, right there there for the entire world to see, and moderators if they choose. I am not sure where or why you have come unglued, but maybe it is time to move on or use the ignore feature?

I agree. Your responses and mine are all splayed out for anyone to read and make their own decisions.

And now you also accuse me of coming unglued. So yes you are trying to enflame.

As I noted earlier it’s obvious from reading other of your responses and posts that this is your normal mode of operation when you disagree with others.

 

[BZOFIQ]

You did, correct. You also said "somebody else can confirm if there is local access on the A3" which is why I replied as I did. All Apex controller are accessible via the local host. I am not trying to nit pick with you just explaining why I replied the way i did.

Hope your day is well.

Day is great!

Thanks for confirming on the A3 - I don't have one so wasn't too sure if anything changed there.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It appears you want to argue about everything from semantics to arguing about arguing -- none of it relevant to my actual opinion or the Hydros itself.

Have fun with that

 

[Dom_P]

ASIt appears you want to argue about everything from to semantics to arguing about arguing. Have fun with that.

Lol. Hello Mr Pot meet Mrs Kettle.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Day is great!

Thanks for confirming on the A3 - I don't have one so wasn't too sure if anything changed there.

So where does the requirement for MOBIUS come in... or is it always optional?

 

[BZOFIQ]

So where does the requirement for MOBIUS come in... or is it always optional?

What?

 

[BeanAnimal]

What?

Where does MOBIUS fit in with the connectivity. I never really looked into it but thought there was a module or some connectivity required for some devices -- either now or legacy. Maybe I am not asking the question clearly.

 

[BZOFIQ]

@BeanAnimal

Edited out due to error.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Where does MOBIUS fit in with the connectivity. I never really looked into it.

I don't have MOBIUS nor will I ever own anything EcoTech; ever.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@BeanAnimal

Something went haywire here - I never said any of these things.



View attachment 4171847

Yeah something certainly did ... those quotes should be @n2585722

Weird.

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[n2585722]

Yeah something certainly did ... those quotes should be @n2585722

Weird.

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Not sure why I would be mentioning Mobius since I do not use it and never have used it. I do have 2 MP10's but they are pre Mobius and they are controlled by my WEv2. If something happens to them and they need to be replaced it will not be another EcoTech product.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not sure why I would be mentioning Mobius

You weren't

 

[n2585722]

You weren't

Those quotes that BZOFIQ posted where not me either.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Lol. Hello Mr Pot meet Mrs Kettle.

Whatever little fibs you tell yourself to help you sleep better can be our little secret

 

[Dom_P]

Lol. Hello Mr Pot meet Mrs Kettle.

Whatever little fibs you tell yourself to help you sleep better can be our little secret

lol. Seems I live rent free in your head

You enjoy flaming on

 

[BeanAnimal]

Those quotes that BZOFIQ posted where not me either.

Yeah - all fixed. I thought it was a screenshot of the screenshot... nevermind.

I fixed the original post. @BZOFIQ you can delete the screenshot. Original post quotes fixed.