I can't keep anything new alive

[Blutspitze]

I think the combo of the prolonged acclimation and change in salinity is probably pretty stressful on the fish. Lowering the salinity in QT and gradually raising it over the course of the whole stay there is probably the least stressful. I’d try skipping the drip acclimation all together. All the little stress adds up quickly into big stress for the fish

Agreed. I'm hoping this does the trick, but it'll be a little while before I can get the biomedia up and bacteria'd. Fingers will be crossed.

I’ve had good luck with the aqua medic trap, but you’ve got to put it close to the sand and expect to leave it in there for a few days. You also have to start feeding only in the trap to make it a comfortable place. The trick is not to jump the gun and spring the trap to early, Marine fish are smart and will quickly learn what you are up to and remember. There’s another super clever trap I’ve seen on Instagram that’s probably the best design I have seen but the name eludes me, as soon as I remember I will message you the name.

I'll check out the aqua medic one, I'm sure it's better than the bottles that I've tried in the past. My issue has been that I've needed to catch and remove fish quickly, so the getting used to it thing doesn't work too well. Except one time where one fish swam right in the trap, but not the one I wanted to get. So sad.

 

[Hemmdog]

+1 on no more drip acclimating

 

[Blutspitze]

+1 on no more drip acclimating

I would like to think that the issue wasn't something so simple, but a lot of people certainly agree

 

[Cell]

Could also try hitting the bag with some Prime right away while floating. I'm curious about the calls to stop drip acclimating. LA requires it for the guarantee, doesnt it?

 

[Hemmdog]

Could also try hitting the bag with some Prime right away while floating. I'm curious about the calls to stop drip acclimating. LA requires it for the guarantee, doesnt it?

It’s torturous to the fish, burns their gills, causes organ damage. Just because they recommend doing it doesn’t make it the best practice to do. You temp acclimate and drop into a cycled qt with identical salinity to the bag, slowly increase salinity over a few weeks in the qt.

 

[Blutspitze]

Could also try hitting the bag with some Prime right away while floating. I'm curious about the calls to stop drip acclimating. LA requires it for the guarantee, doesnt it?

LA requires you follow their acclimation process, which lists both floating and dripping methods as valid. LA animals are kept in 1.021-025 salinity, as well, so this particular issue wouldn't happen, though ammonia is another story.

 

[Cell]

It’s torturous to the fish, burns their gills, causes organ damage. Just because they recommend doing it doesn’t make it the best practice to do. You temp acclimate and drop into a cycled qt with identical salinity to the bag, slowly increase salinity over a few weeks in the qt.

Given the majority of reefers do not QT, what is the best alternative?

 

[Hemmdog]

Given the majority of reefers do not QT, what is the best alternative?

If it’s a fish you really care about and it outweighs how much you care about your coral drop your systems salinity a hundredth or two. I had to do this when I got my blue throat trigger because he was to big for my qt. My coral was mad for a month but no losses. I’ve done the drip method in the past and lost 70% of the fish by the end of the month, random unexplained deaths. Once I switched to temp acclimate, match salinity of bag & release, my survival rate has honestly been 100%. Best qt tanks imo are little biocubes, inexpensive and has everything you need except meds if applicable. Big fish need a bigger qt obviously.

 

[ZoWhat]

Temp swings? What's your low/high over every 24hrs?

SG? Are you using a calibrated refractometer?

 

[Blutspitze]

Temp swings? What's your low/high over every 24hrs?

SG? Are you using a calibrated refractometer?

Minor swings in temp, but nothing too extreme. Temp goes between 78-79 (on a controller). Salinity hovers around 1.024-026, tested weekly with a calibrated refractometer and monitored salinity on controller of ~34.5-35 . Nothing really drastic as far as changes at any given time.

 

[ZoWhat]

Have you talked to other buyers who are buying from the same "source"?

It could be the person you're buying from has a crappy supply chain. Other buyers might be seeing the same thing.....and no one knows until you all start talking to each other

 

[Blutspitze]

Have you talked to other buyers who are buying from the same "source"?

It could be the person you're buying from has a crappy supply chain. Other buyers might be seeing the same thing.....and no one knows until you all start talking to each other

I've not, no. The shop's been around for a bit over a decade, though, and as mentioned they do copper and other treatments as needed before putting new stock on the floor. Certainly something to consider regardless.

 

[Averhoeven]

I err towards rapid change from the hypo too. A rapid freshwater dip is very different from taking a fish that has acclimated to one thing and then relatively quickly put them in something different. If seems stupid, small, whatever, but we all have that thing that screwed with us. I lost a bunch of fish to QT initially, but have gotten better at it. Using water from my DT for the whole TTM process made it all better.
I doubt it's your dripping. I drip my fish that I order online (well, not drip per se, but add occasional small blouses of tank water). I added Amquel to it to prevent the ammonia burn the second I dump the bag in the bucket, but ammonia should be a huge issue for you given your transit time.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Given the majority of reefers do not QT, what is the best alternative?

I’ve personally have always floated the bag, pour the fish into a net and then put them in the tank method, long before I QT’d. I’ve honestly never cared about the salinity change, I’m sure there’s been some drastic differences. Everytime I’ve tried to drip acclimate fish I lose them, I think it just prolongs the stress on the fish which is actually worse than the change in salinity. Marine fish are complex organisms with kidneys that help regulate their internal salinity, I suspect one rapid change in salinity isn’t as stressful as slowly changing the salinity while the fish is held in the bag over a prolonged period. Where it trapped in an also stressful environment, where it is excited, stressed and ammonia levels are increasing. All that being said, those are just my personal thoughts.

 

[MnFish1]

I guess I would vote for 'aggression' (unless you've absolutely seen none - and this seems less likely since its happening in your QT tank as well. I've never acclimated fish from one of my LFS for more than 30 minutes (temperature, add a cup of water - remove a cup of water a couple times - and then remove the fish from the bag and put in the tank....

Do you think its possible that your tank has a disease/parasite - that your fish are succumbing to? Fish can develop immunity to velvet/CI and other things - that attack new arrivals. Again - this may be less likely if you see absolutely no symptoms. What exactly happens to the fish 'before they die'?

It's frustrating. Hopefully you'll find an answer

Edit - what is the salinity level at the LFS as compared to yours? Have you asked your LFS how they recommend acclimating their fish? I mean - most LFS do not sell fish that need to be acclimated for 'days'. I guess (no offense to the other suggesters) - that this seems somewhat unlikely?)

EDIT 2 - BTW - I realize that you say you dont see any disease or aggression - but sometimes its really difficult to pin it down. Also - is there any reason to think that the oxygen levels in your tank might be low?

 

[Blutspitze]

I guess I would vote for 'aggression' (unless you've absolutely seen none - and this seems less likely since its happening in your QT tank as well. I've never acclimated fish from one of my LFS for more than 30 minutes (temperature, add a cup of water - remove a cup of water a couple times - and then remove the fish from the bag and put in the tank....

Do you think its possible that your tank has a disease/parasite - that your fish are succumbing to? Fish can develop immunity to velvet/CI and other things - that attack new arrivals. Again - this may be less likely if you see absolutely no symptoms. What exactly happens to the fish 'before they die'?

It's frustrating. Hopefully you'll find an answer

Edit - what is the salinity level at the LFS as compared to yours? Have you asked your LFS how they recommend acclimating their fish? I mean - most LFS do not sell fish that need to be acclimated for 'days'. I guess (no offense to the other suggesters) - that this seems somewhat unlikely?)

EDIT 2 - BTW - I realize that you say you dont see any disease or aggression - but sometimes its really difficult to pin it down. Also - is there any reason to think that the oxygen levels in your tank might be low?

Thanks for the replies/thoughts on this. I had problems with aggressive fish in the past, but since removing the problem children, I haven't had any issues. My clown was fine with me adding in a notoriously shy firefish, so I don't believe territory is an issue. The fish I've seen die go through generalized fatigue, gradually slowing their movements, staying on one side (losing buoyancy control), faster breathing, then often get the "death throws", as I call them, where they violently convulse and twitch, then die. It's rather horrific to watch. All within about a day of initially slowing down. No spots of any size or color, gills have all looked good, fins and scales intact and well-colored, no slime or other type of coating. Still could be a disease I can't see, but with such a variety in timings I find it unlikely, particularly since they're treated at the LFS.

Their salinity is around 1.013 while mine is 1.025. Pretty huge difference, and I've seen a few other threads that support this being a significant issue.

As far as O2 levels, I don't have a probe or anything, but I doubt they're low - I run a skimmer 24/7, plus maintain waves on the surfaces of both the DT and sump. Unfortunately I can't really check since the probes are WAY out of my price range.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the replies/thoughts on this. I had problems with aggressive fish in the past, but since removing the problem children, I haven't had any issues. My clown was fine with me adding in a notoriously shy firefish, so I don't believe territory is an issue. The fish I've seen die go through generalized fatigue, gradually slowing their movements, staying on one side (losing buoyancy control), faster breathing, then often get the "death throws", as I call them, where they violently convulse and twitch, then die. It's rather horrific to watch. All within about a day of initially slowing down. No spots of any size or color, gills have all looked good, fins and scales intact and well-colored, no slime or other type of coating. Still could be a disease I can't see, but with such a variety in timings I find it unlikely, particularly since they're treated at the LFS.

Their salinity is around 1.013 while mine is 1.025. Pretty huge difference, and I've seen a few other threads that support this being a significant issue.

As far as O2 levels, I don't have a probe or anything, but I doubt they're low - I run a skimmer 24/7, plus maintain waves on the surfaces of both the DT and sump. Unfortunately I can't really check since the probes are WAY out of my price range.

I think its a bad idea for your store to be keeping fish at a salinity of 1.013 routinely. JMO. It makes acclimation for you much more difficult - and needlessly so.

 

[Jimmy Long]

I’ve never drip acclimated fresh or saltwater, no matter what, i just drop them in there with 100% success rate, even my cleaner shrimp got that plop and drop. Acclimation IMO is heavily overrstated and not necessary. It could just be your LFS that’s awful.

 

[Blutspitze]

I think its a bad idea for your store to be keeping fish at a salinity of 1.013 routinely. JMO. It makes acclimation for you much more difficult - and needlessly so.

True, acclimation is much tougher, but the hyposalinity helps stop parasites and bacteria, which is why they do it. In general it is needless, though.

I’ve never drip acclimated fresh or saltwater, no matter what, i just drop them in there with 100% success rate, even my cleaner shrimp got that plop and drop. Acclimation IMO is heavily overrstated and not necessary. It could just be your LFS that’s awful.

That's quite surprising - I don't think I've ever heard of someone not doing any sort of acclimation. You don't even do temp acclimating?

 

[MnFish1]

True, acclimation is much tougher, but the hyposalinity helps stop parasites and bacteria, which is why they do it. In general it is needless, though.



That's quite surprising - I don't think I've ever heard of someone not doing any sort of acclimation. You don't even do temp acclimating?

Yes - I know why they do it - but I think (no expert here) - that the problem is that usually its like 1.019 (1.013 is awfully low - and probably results in weaker overall fish) - second velvet is not really affected by hypo salinity (as compared to a freshwater dip) and third none of the other parasites or bacteria are affected by hypo salinity. But - I'm not arguing with you at all. Im just really surprised that its 'that' low.