I can't keep anything new alive

[Todd Jacobs]

Why is LFS doing hypo salinity and copper and what level of copper is in the stores water As a former owner of 2 LFS in Brklyn NY and someone who has acclimated thousands of fish I would say honestly it could be the collection of the shipper or the LFS is not telling u something else they are using these fish should never die after 2-3 weeks and thats usally a sighn of poisoning as in cyanid collecting or LFS using to much copper or a diffrent chemical they are not telling u about i would not do copper and hypo togther in my shop i would have a seperate quarantine system in back with a big uv and treat with copper only when needed and sold and acclimated thousands of fish never with any major problems try a diffrent shop Best of luck

 

[Feet4Fish]

I wonder whether the tank has reached its stocking limits or not.
Territorial issues vary from fish to fish.
Should have enough of rock work to afford being out of sight.
Fish selection could be the reason as well.

Stocking limit can be determined in part by dissolved oxygen. This is a vital aspect of fish health that is not often considered. May want to check.

 

[Blutspitze]

Every death I have ever had has been due to lack of knowledge at my lfs..(hypo salinity), temp. Shock(15 years ago though), or stress even after qt.. I made an acrylic chamber in my sump that allows me to drip acclimate and temp acclimate at the same time.. the run over from chamber goes into a 5 gallon bucket so nothing goes into display system then I place the fish in my tanklimate/acclimation box at night to help with stress.. I have heard low red light during this time helps but not sure if that is true or not.
(The acclimation chamber is removable and is warmed by the surrounding water in the sump..) I have a large system so this helps me not sure about your system size. My 2 cents though..

P.s. yes I know it could leak but I doubt it as I remove it and clean/maintain it and the only place it could leak is overly done with a schedule 80 bulk head and dual gaskets.... just to clarify.

Oh... and if you're concerned with your water or wondering if something is off have you sent in any water for icp testing? I have noticed a lot of fish can slowly acclimate to elevated levels with little signs (low obviously) but could potentially shock a new addition.. my tank almost crashed and I couldnt figure it out to save my life and after icp testing i noticed there was copper in my system.. well my 3 year old daughter had thrown some change in my sump that i didnt see until i was siphoning out the fish poo in the sump. Freaked me out but everything recovered in a few months. (I know this post is about fish but you never know).

I'm really curious about your acclimation setup - how does it work that you have the overflow go to a bucket? Is the chamber drilled/bulkheaded to the sump wall to drain out? It'd be great if you could share a pic.

A few other folks mentioned going with ICP testing, as well. I haven't taken the plunge just yet, but very well may. I'd think that heavy metals would've affected the corals more, but either way it can give some unique insights. It's a good next step, but honestly uncertain if I will. I may ask locally to see if I can get it done here instead of sending it in.

You have not stated the measurements of your DT anywhere or I may have missed that.
And, the point raised by many regarding very very slow raising of salinity is something very noteworthy I think.
It also happens to be a fact that there are strong fishes and weak fishes as well as every other thing in between.
An ICP test should settle some big doubts.
And lastly, go visit some fellow reefers to freshen up your clogged mind, find peace, gather your wits, calm down and refocus.;Happy;Happy
Best wishes.

Sorry, I didn't mention - 55 gallon long (48"). The sump is currently holding ~10 gallons. Decent amount of wiggle room for most issues. I was hoping that some of the heartier fish that had been in the store awhile would help, but it didn't seem to matter, unfortunately.

Thanks very much regardless - it's definitely a situation where some calming words can help. I just need to connect with more local reefers .

Why is LFS doing hypo salinity and copper and what level of copper is in the stores water As a former owner of 2 LFS in Brklyn NY and someone who has acclimated thousands of fish I would say honestly it could be the collection of the shipper or the LFS is not telling u something else they are using these fish should never die after 2-3 weeks and thats usally a sighn of poisoning as in cyanid collecting or LFS using to much copper or a diffrent chemical they are not telling u about i would not do copper and hypo togther in my shop i would have a seperate quarantine system in back with a big uv and treat with copper only when needed and sold and acclimated thousands of fish never with any major problems try a diffrent shop Best of luck

I don't know the level of copper that the LFS is using, but they do not do copper treatments on the shop floor. It's only when they QT the fish. After that, they go to the store display tanks where they're only in hypo. Regardless, I've tried a handful of shops and haven't had any difference in results, unfortunately.

 

[Blutspitze]

Stocking limit can be determined in part by dissolved oxygen. This is a vital aspect of fish health that is not often considered. May want to check.

This is very true, but I don't have a good way of checking - any recommendations? I have good surface movement and run a skimmer, so O2 levels shouldn't be much of an issue with only 3-4 fish.

 

[JumboShrimp]

@Anupam says "Freshen up your clogged mind, find peace, gather your wits, camlm down and refocus." I like it.

 

[joeyamador]

I'm really curious about your acclimation setup - how does it work that you have the overflow go to a bucket? Is the chamber drilled/bulkheaded to the sump wall to drain out? It'd be great if you could share a pic.

A few other folks mentioned going with ICP testing, as well. I haven't taken the plunge just yet, but very well may. I'd think that heavy metals would've affected the corals more, but either way it can give some unique insights. It's a good next step, but honestly uncertain if I will. I may ask locally to see if I can get it done here instead of sending it in.



Sorry, I didn't mention - 55 gallon long (48"). The sump is currently holding ~10 gallons. Decent amount of wiggle room for most issues. I was hoping that some of the heartier fish that had been in the store awhile would help, but it didn't seem to matter, unfortunately.

Thanks very much regardless - it's definitely a situation where some calming words can help. I just need to connect with more local reefers .



I don't know the level of copper that the LFS is using, but they do not do copper treatments on the shop floor. It's only when they QT the fish. After that, they go to the store display tanks where they're only in hypo. Regardless, I've tried a handful of shops and haven't had any difference in results, unfortunately.

Absolutely.. I will send you pictures of the acclimator I made with over flow on Wednesday if you could please PM me and remind me.. im in Georgia till then. Before I made mine I used a square container deep enough to penetrate several inches of water that had a bracket on it that would hang on sump (an example would be the hang on holding containers most Lfs's use when getting your pet out prior to bagging but bigger.).. I drilled a hole,installed a bulkhead added a piece of pipe with a 90 and ran an acclimation dripper to the box.. temp and salinity done simultaneously.. plus I think when lfs tell people to float the bag then drip they forget if your house is 70 degrees and your water is 78-80 degrees the small amount of water can easily drop to 68 degrees thus shocking (not all the time) the fish and causing them to die in a day or longer as some last longer from it.. you would essentially have to float,drip, then float again which made my survival rate so much higher but was annoying so this was my solution.

 

[Mykawl]

This thread was super helpful, I’m experiencing similar issues LFS keeping fish @ 1.015. Corals melting and my first snail didn’t make it but was just floated and dumped in. (Just found out about hyposalinity).
sorry if I missed it but it seems people generally float then dump fish even with such a high jump in salinity?

What about invertebrates like shrimp/snails? & even corals

The other option if needing to acclimate to a higher salinity is that you would ideally want a large qt tank and do it over the course of many days (Longer the better)?and ofcourse would need nitrifying bacteria or prime

I don’t have this luxury/option atm though.

@Blutspitze any updates?

 

[Blutspitze]

This thread was super helpful, I’m experiencing similar issues LFS keeping fish @ 1.015. Corals melting and my first snail didn’t make it but was just floated and dumped in. (Just found out about hyposalinity).
sorry if I missed it but it seems people generally float then dump fish even with such a high jump in salinity?

What about invertebrates like shrimp/snails? & even corals

The other option if needing to acclimate to a higher salinity is that you would ideally want a large qt tank and do it over the course of many days (Longer the better)?and ofcourse would need nitrifying bacteria or prime

I don’t have this luxury/option atm though.

@Blutspitze any updates?

The general consensus was to take a QT gradually from a matched low salinity to whatever the DT is over the course of ~5 days. I'm planning to setup my QT sometime this coming week (bioballs are in DT sump to get that sweet bacteria), and try it out, probably with some chromies.

Other than that, the consensus was to have the bag in the tank and add ~half a cup of tank water every 5 min or so until the bag is full, dump the water, then do it again. This would be your best best, rather than strictly doing temperature acclimation.

 

[MnFish1]

Also I'm under the impression that hypo salinity in combination with copper is actually detrimental.

 

[Blutspitze]

Also I'm under the impression that hypo salinity in combination with copper is actually detrimental.

I've heard the same. If you're doing copper treatment AND dealing with hypo, the salinity should be raised first prior to treatment.

 

[Mehul]

You might have a bully in the tank, I had a fish that made at least 6 other fish to jump out and commit suicide

 

[Blutspitze]

You might have a bully in the tank, I had a fish that made at least 6 other fish to jump out and commit suicide

Possible, but that wouldn't affect the ones that died in the QT before, and I thought I got rid of the bullies already. I'll be trying again soon, hopefully it'll work.

 

[Blutspitze]

For anyone still watching/interested, this past weekend I got my QT back up and running again! SG was matched to the VERY low levels of the LFS - around 1.012. I picked up 3 Chromis (because triplicate testing) on Saturday and I'm doing about a half gallon change/day (~6-7% since the tank isn't full up to 10 gallons) with new water at an SG slightly above 1.026 so I can gradually up the SG and control any nutrient problems. The HOB filter has ceramic balls that were in my DT about a month, a regular sponge pad, and a carbon pad.

Meet Hopes, Dreams, and Aspirations (tentatively named). They hung out in the corner for a few hours together after being added.

After a day or so they really started to enjoy hanging out by the heater.

They've eaten very well (live brine from the store and frozen mysis). I'll be keeping them here for a couple weeks, then moving them to the acclimation box in the DT.