I can't keep anything new alive

[Blutspitze]

I'm frustrated. Also hopeless and helpless. No matter what I do or how careful I am, I cannot get new fish to stay alive in my tank. I have a great LFS that performs copper treatments and keeps everything in hyposalinity, but it doesn't matter if I QT or not, nothing new lives, and I'm out of ideas and sanity.

I've got good, steady parameters and make my own water:

• Nitrate - ~10-20
• Nitrite - 0
• Ammonia - 0
• pH - ~8.2
• dKH - 8-9
• Phosphate - 0-0.25
• Calcium - ~480
• Salinity - 1.025/26

I had issues with highly aggressive (actively killing) fish, nitrates, and a couple others, but that's all done now. The current fish have been inside for some time: 19 months, 12 months, and ~4 months for a diamond goby, blood orange clown, and orangeback wrasse, respectively). I also have a sebae nem that's been in for about 11 months. Since around February of this year, when the last major noticeable issue I had (highly aggressive fish) was taken care of, I've attempted to add about 10 fish at various times. The vast majority haven't survived a full week. I had a firefish survive about 3 months, but it died just after adding a dwarf angel, likely due to stress of the new addition. Said angel then died this past Sunday after around 3 weeks.

A few hours before the angel died. No external signs of disease, aggression, etc. It had eaten fine the day before. Just.... died.

The day the angel died, got a yellow goby that had been in the store ~3 weeks. It lasted in my tank 3 days, in the acclimation box. I'm at the end of my rope and intensely distressed about this. I tried using the fancy new acclimation box to help ease them in, I always set my acclimation lights, but I never see anything wrong until... they're just dead. I float bags with new fish for temp, then drip acclimate ~45 minutes before adding to the tank (particularly needed because of the hyposalinity of the LFS).

I'm literally losing sleep and seriously contemplating quitting the hobby. I'm extremely careful about things being on point and taking everything slow, making sure there wouldn't be compatibility or aggression issues, steady parameters, clean out algae, but nothing I do seems to matter, and all I'm doing is wasting money at this point. 2 fish stores have tested my water and found the same parameters, the few corals I have are all doing quite well, and, like I mentioned, there's no sign of aggression or disease on the deceased fish. I cannot figure this out. A hitchhiker that I can't see? The nem stinging new folk? I just don't know. Any help/advice would be very appreciated and of course I can give more info if needed.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Have you tried getting any fish from another source? Sorry you’ve been having this experience.

 

[Blutspitze]

Have you tried getting any fish from another source? Sorry you’ve been having this experience.

Thanks for the response - I've tried another LFS I trust and had the same issue. They don't do the copper treatment or hyposalinity, though, so I try putting things in QT. 10 gallon, oversized HOB with sponge and biomedia, small powerhead, ammoniaAlert, medications on hand. Made with 50% new and 50% DT water, lit by natural light. Same issue, they don't survive a week. There's a lot of stores around, though. Others could be worth a try.

 

[Foothill Corals]

Is it possibly aggression from the Blood orange clown? My understanding is they are hybrids Occilaris and Maroon clown. Maroons are known to be very aggressive.

 

[E.intheC]

A few other things to think about— how quickly did you raise salinity from hypo levels? Fish generally don’t tolerate going from hypo to “normal” salinity levels well.

I don’t generally like to suggest this, but have you read about cyanide poisoning? Angels are notorious for having this issue. Something to consider.

Good luck

 

[Kodock]

I recommend the floating/bag method, instead of drip. QT’s should be within .01 of the store’s salinity and then raised over time. 45 minutes is a long time to drip IMO. Even though you are just coming from the LFS, once you open that bag, ammonia sets in and can burn gills or cause organ damage.

Possibilities:
Dicey LFS
Sensitive/Hard-to-keep fish
Acclimation method
Aggressive tank mate

Acclimation Procedure for Aquatic Life: Welcoming Home New Arrivals

You've invested valuable time and money researching the habitat requirements of the fish and corals you wish to house. Naturally, you want to protect this investment by executing a proper acclimation process once the specimens arrive at your door.

m.liveaquaria.com

 

[Blutspitze]

Thanks for the suggestions:

Is it possibly aggression from the Blood orange clown? My understanding is they are hybrids Occilaris and Maroon clown. Maroons are known to be very aggressive.

You're correct about the breeding, yes. They do tend to be aggressive, but in-between maroon and orange, and moreso towards other damsels/clowns. Since it lived fine with the firefish for a good while I don't think it's too bad. Not to mention it wouldn't affect those in the box. I'd think. I've not seen it be aggressive, but could be happening when I can't see.

A few other things to think about— how quickly did you raise salinity from hypo levels? Fish generally don’t tolerate going from hypo to “normal” salinity levels well.

I don’t generally like to suggest this, but have you read about cyanide poisoning? Angels are notorious for having this issue. Something to consider.

Good luck

Acclimation is by drip for about 45 min - pour in bag w/fish and LFS water, drip slowly (2-3/sec). After ~20 min remove half ish of the water, then continue. Could be the issue, though I don't know why some things last weeks while others days.

I'd not heard about cyanide issues at all before. Might explain the angel, but there were lots of others before, as well.

 

[Foothill Corals]

FWIW I had a Maroon many years ago, never again. He had a an attitude bullied his tank mates and would not allow any new fish in the tank.

 

[Blutspitze]

I recommend the floating/bag method, instead of drip. QT’s should be within .01 of the store’s salinity and then raised over time. 45 minutes is a long time to drip IMO. Even though you are just coming from the LFS, once you open that bag, ammonia sets in and can burn gills or cause organ damage.

Possibilities:
Dicey LFS
Sensitive/Hard-to-keep fish
Acclimation method
Aggressive tank mate

Acclimation Procedure for Aquatic Life: Welcoming Home New Arrivals

You've invested valuable time and money researching the habitat requirements of the fish and corals you wish to house. Naturally, you want to protect this investment by executing a proper acclimation process once the specimens arrive at your door.

m.liveaquaria.com

Thanks for the suggestions. I used to do the floating method, but heard drip was generally preferred, so switched over. What's the time frame for ammonia causing issues and subsequent lethality? Does it vary a lot depending on the damage?

 

[Blutspitze]

FWIW I had a Maroon many years ago, never again. He had a an attitude bullied his tank mates and would not allow any new fish in the tank.

Interesting. I'd hate that to be the reason . I really love the little guy.

 

[E.intheC]

When going from hypo salinity to standard levels, you should really take days rather than hours. I’ve heard that salinity-acclimation issues can take time to show up in fish, although I can’t say I’ve experienced that myself.

 

[Kodock]

Thanks for the suggestions. I used to do the floating method, but heard drip was generally preferred, so switched over. What's the time frame for ammonia causing issues and subsequent lethality? Does it vary a lot depending on the damage?

I believe 12 hours in the bag is a safe argument for an ammonia risk at bag opening. It is likely not your problem, unless you are waiting a long time and then don’t remove the source water promptly as your drip water increases the volume.

How to Acclimate

How to Acclimate The purpose of this article is to discuss proper acclimation procedures for saltwater fish, corals and invertebrates. Improper acclimation is probably one of the leading reasons why livestock suddenly die after being introduced into an aquarium. This inevitable death can take...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Blutspitze]

When going from hypo salinity to standard levels, you should really take days rather than hours. I’ve heard that salinity-acclimation issues can take time to show up in fish, although I can’t say I’ve experienced that myself.

This seems fairly likely, then. I've kept my DT and QT both around the 1.025/26 mark, so that transition could be the issue. Most likely resolution would be to have the QT hypo and gradually up it.

I believe 12 hours in the bag is a safe argument for an ammonia risk at bag opening. It is likely not your problem, unless you are waiting a long time and then don’t remove the source water promptly as your drip water increases the volume.

How to Acclimate

How to Acclimate The purpose of this article is to discuss proper acclimation procedures for saltwater fish, corals and invertebrates. Improper acclimation is probably one of the leading reasons why livestock suddenly die after being introduced into an aquarium. This inevitable death can take...

www.reef2reef.com

For sure not the issue, then. I'll take the fish straight from the store to my house, then doing the acclimation. At most around 2 hours from store to getting in the tank.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Since you’ve gotten fish from a source that uses copper and one that doesn’t and you still have losses I don’t think it’s a problem with the source.

Personally I have never had any luck drip acclimating fish. I float the bag for 10-15 mins then dump the fish out of the bag into a net over a bucket and then put them in the tank. I’ve done it this way for decades and can’t remember losing a fish. That being said I agree that the hyposalinity to regular salinity may be the culprit. It sounds like you are doing everything else right.

My experience has always been that if I drip acclimate I experience higher losses. Though I’ll be honest, I’ve never tested the salinity of the water they come in so I don’t know if I have gone from hypo to normal salinities, my assumption is it’s probably happened in the thousands of times I’ve added fish in my life. (I worked at a aquarium store in my youth).

 

[Katrina71]

I float acclimate mine too.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Clowns can be ruthless. All it takes is bullying the new guy into not eating and it’s a done deal 9 times out of 10 for the new comer. If you notice any aggression you might be best to remove the clown to QT for a couple weeks until the new guy is comfortable, or put the clown in the social acclimation box. Sometimes removing the fish that’s territorial will force him to establish different boundaries when they are reintroduced.

 

[Blutspitze]

Since you’ve gotten fish from a source that uses copper and one that doesn’t and you still have losses I don’t think it’s a problem with the source.

Personally I have never had any luck drip acclimating fish. I float the bag for 10-15 mins then dump the fish out of the bag into a net over a bucket and then put them in the tank. I’ve done it this way for decades and can’t remember losing a fish. That being said I agree that the hyposalinity to regular salinity may be the culprit. It sounds like you are doing everything else right.

My experience has always been that if I drip acclimate I experience higher losses. Though I’ll be honest, I’ve never tested the salinity of the water they come in so I don’t know if I have gone from hypo to normal salinities, my assumption is it’s probably happened in the thousands of times I’ve added fish in my life. (I worked at a aquarium store in my youth).

I float acclimate mine too.

Seems like this is the general consensus on the main issue here. Very frustrating to think it's something so simple. I remember the only reason I found out was because I was acclimating a new fish to my QT (float) and checked the salinity after a few additions of my water - it was only ~1.015. I freaked out and called the store, and that's when the guy told me they keep most of their stock (not corals or inverts) hypo. I didn't think that it would be such a big aspect, but I at least have something to try now.

 

[Blutspitze]

Clowns can be ruthless. All it takes is bullying the new guy into not eating and it’s a done deal 9 times out of 10 for the new comer. If you notice any aggression you might be best to remove the clown to QT for a couple weeks until the new guy is comfortable, or put the clown in the social acclimation box. Sometimes removing the fish that’s territorial will force him to establish different boundaries when they are reintroduced.

Agreed. It's frustrating not seeing signs of aggression when it may be happening, too. I can try if I see signs. Incidentally, any tips on catching fish? It's been a big trouble spot for me - nets and traps haven't done it.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Seems like this is the general consensus on the main issue here. Very frustrating to think it's something so simple. I remember the only reason I found out was because I was acclimating a new fish to my QT (float) and checked the salinity after a few additions of my water - it was only ~1.015. I freaked out and called the store, and that's when the guy told me they keep most of their stock (not corals or inverts) hypo. I didn't think that it would be such a big aspect, but I at least have something to try now.

I think the combo of the prolonged acclimation and change in salinity is probably pretty stressful on the fish. Lowering the salinity in QT and gradually raising it over the course of the whole stay there is probably the least stressful. I’d try skipping the drip acclimation all together. All the little stress adds up quickly into big stress for the fish

 

[Rick.45cal]

Agreed. It's frustrating not seeing signs of aggression when it may be happening, too. I can try if I see signs. Incidentally, any tips on catching fish? It's been a big trouble spot for me - nets and traps haven't done it.

I’ve had good luck with the aqua medic trap, but you’ve got to put it close to the sand and expect to leave it in there for a few days. You also have to start feeding only in the trap to make it a comfortable place. The trick is not to jump the gun and spring the trap to early, Marine fish are smart and will quickly learn what you are up to and remember. There’s another super clever trap I’ve seen on Instagram that’s probably the best design I have seen but the name eludes me, as soon as I remember I will message you the name.