I got a rant to put out there, so fair warning but I'm open to hearing opinions

[AKG]

Correct me if I'm wrong, there was no mention of "lying about provenance" in the original post. Seems like the goalposts are moving here. Of course lying about the source or lineage of a coral when directly asked is shady. But buying a colony from a different vendor, chopping it up and selling frags under a made up name is marketing and part of the hobby.

So you're saying if I buy a Colorado sunburst and call it a Carolina sunburst then there's nothing wrong? Because that's what is happening.

 

[AKG]

That makes no sense.

It's still affordable. Just stop looking all the the flashy advertisement.


You need to look around more. There are TONS of them at every show from good people. Please don't assume when someone is trying to sell reasonable priced items that they don't care about the cleaniest of their system/livestock.



There are electric cars out there less than 100k .... I don't know where you are searching for cars.

I think the key takeaway is as other vendors have mentioned, it's happened for a long time, and I enjoy supporting businesses your size Lynn, but the thing is you and I both know we can't judge the entire industry on one vendor's actions.

I'm simply saying that you like anyone provides a product and you either stand by the health of that product, and it's safety in a consumer's tank, or you do not.

I feel like arbitration opportunity isn't in the spirit of establishing a reliable brand name or retaining one when the intention is to immediately resale other people's coral at a markup under your brand when it operates on the idea of a curated, healthy product with a healthy markup.

Just my opinion.

 

[Reefer Matt]

So you're saying if I buy a Colorado sunburst and call it a Carolina sunburst then there's nothing wrong? Because that's what is happening.

That is misleading of them, but unfortunately coral are not manufactured and there is no blue book value on coral "model" types, per se. It is up to the consumer to know what they are buying, and buyers beware of people renaming things. That's why I advocate to just go back to the old days of calling them, "green acro", or "orange hammer", etc.

 

[Dom]

Ok... I'm just going to say it...

Who is the vendor that did this?

How can I avoid this unethical vendor if I don't know who it is?

 

[SPS2020]

Ok... I'm just going to say it...

Who is the vendor that did this?

How can I avoid this unethical vendor if I don't know who it is?

OP said to PM him for the vendor's name.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Not gonna lie, I went and looked at BSA website, holy color saturation. No photo doctoring going on there. And good lord the prices they want for coral. They even call one scoly yellow...but its not...its green.

 

[pennied]

So you're saying if I buy a Colorado sunburst and call it a Carolina sunburst then there's nothing wrong? Because that's what is happening.

Yes, who is going to tell you no? And if someone says no, what authority do they have to enforce said no.

 

[C4ctus99]

As someone newer to this hobby, the costs are ridiculous.

As someone who works hard to lead an honest life, I ain’t a fan of what the OP saw at an event.

It’s not against the law, but it is a dishonest practice on all fronts, even if only lying by omission. Personally I don’t have the money to pay for a $600 “designer” coral. But it also hit me the other night to put 10 fish in your tank you’re looking at $1,000+

I don’t know how people have the money for all this, I can’t afford a $400 light for my 20g, much less 6 or 8 when I upgrade to a much bigger tank. Fortunately I work with my hands and found a used light that I disassembled, cut up, and reassembled to fit my tank with homemade stands for $75. If I got that same light new it would be triple that.

I guess some people on these forums can afford to spend more on their aquarium setup than I’ve ever spent on a car, but I’m trying to save up for a house and inflation makes that hard enough, just want to enjoy some fish while I’m waiting without having to sell my truck to front half the cost

 

[pennied]

Ok... I'm just going to say it...

Who is the vendor that did this?

How can I avoid this unethical vendor if I don't know who it is?

bsa, wwc, tsa, poto just to name a few

 

[Reefer Matt]

As someone newer to this hobby, the costs are ridiculous.

As someone who works hard to lead an honest life, I ain’t a fan of what the OP saw at an event.

It’s not against the law, but it is a dishonest practice on all fronts, even if only lying by omission. Personally I don’t have the money to pay for a $600 “designer” coral. But it also hit me the other night to put 10 fish in your tank you’re looking at $1,000+

I don’t know how people have the money for all this, I can’t afford a $400 light for my 20g, much less 6 or 8 when I upgrade to a much bigger tank. Fortunately I work with my hands and found a used light that I disassembled, cut up, and reassembled to fit my tank with homemade stands for $75. If I got that same light new it would be triple that.

I guess some people on these forums can afford to spend more on their aquarium setup than I’ve ever spent on a car, but I’m trying to save up for a house and inflation makes that hard enough, just want to enjoy some fish while I’m waiting without having to sell my truck to front half the cost

I totally understand your point of view. But by it's nature, reefing is for people with disposable income. It is not a requirement to live. However, it doesn't have to be so restrictive and expensive. There are those that believe only the wealthy should have reef tanks. They believe the wealthy person will take care of the reef better. I think that is b.s., but it offers a point of view. All we can do is shop around, and try not to get sucked into impulse buys. Local groups are always the best place to get good, affordable (and free) coral, imo.

 

[DIYreefer]

So a vendor buying a coral for $20 and then selling to someone for $200 is wrong? Wait till you realize how much fish are marked up. You know how I avoid that? I just don't buy them. As a business owner customers don't get to determine what they should pay for my services. They are more than welcome to use anyone else if they don't like my pricing. Its up to hobbyists to educated themselves so they don't get ripped off. I buy those ugly green sticks nobody wants and many of them have grown out into very colorful colonies.

I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree but I think you may be taking OP's post out of context (or maybe I am?). I think the point is that they thought it was rather shady for xyz vendor with a strong reputation to buy a coral from abc vendor, only to immediately turn around and sell said coral with an xyz name attached to it. If that was their point, I 100% agree.

I think I can speak for most, if not everyone when I say that when you pay a premium price for a coral from xyz, you can rightfully expect that coral to be guaranteed healthy and 100% pest free. I think that tends to be a significant selling point for most vendors, and should absolutely be for the ones charging top dollar for their product. In the case described by OP, there us no way this was the case. It was merely a cash grab.

 

[C4ctus99]

I totally understand your point of view. But by it's nature, reefing is for people with disposable income. It is not a requirement to live. However, it doesn't have to be so restrictive and expensive. There are those that believe only the wealthy should have reef tanks. They believe the wealthy person will take care of the reef better. I think that is b.s., but it offers a point of view. All we can do is shop around, and try not to get sucked into impulse buys. Local groups are always the best place to get good, affordable (and free) coral.

I agree with you, and my disposable income exists, but is limited. Even if it wasn’t, getting a name brand AIO with live rock and sand and fish in any size that isn’t nano can quickly add up to $10k it seems. Even if I had 10k to drop on this hobby, I would never pay that for a single tanks worth of nature… unless it was a frickin huge tank….

I’ve been utilizing local groups more, prices still seem kinda high tbh, but I think that is because of what they originally paid for it. Maybe I should start a thread documenting my adventures trying to spend the minimum possible for my upgrades

 

[Reefer Matt]

I agree with you, and my disposable income exists, but is limited. Even if it wasn’t, getting a name brand AIO with live rock and sand and fish in any size that isn’t nano can quickly add up to $10k it seems. Even if I had 10k to drop on this hobby, I would never pay that for a single tanks worth of nature… unless it was a frickin huge tank….

I’ve been utilizing local groups more, prices still seem kinda high tbh, but I think that is because of what they originally paid for it. Maybe I should start a thread documenting my adventures trying to spend the minimum possible for my upgrades

That's an awesome idea! I started a Youtube channel a while ago to share my experience, even if others disagree.
Good luck, and Happy Reefing!

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

It wwc

Everyone knows this lol

WWC was not at Reefstock.

 

[sczlars]

Well, capitalism and opportunity . I find the whole “high end corals” thing silly. Yellow tangs used to be a dime a dozen, now they are High End Fish. Lol, they were just as pretty before..

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

HIDE THE CORAL THERES POOR PEOPLE AROUND!!

Super elitiest mentality here. “Hobby to expensive, find another one”. Aquarium keeping was once a relatively affordable hobby genius. It’s people like the ones you’re making excuses for making it not so. “There are loads of 10 to 15 dollar corals out there”. Stop lying dude. I have NEVER seen a 10 or 15 dollar coral since like 2005 at a business. Unless it’s some sketchy potheads house selling you a frag with every ailment known to the hobby on it.

“Can’t afford a 100k electric car?” Walk pleb lol.

I’m not advocating government intervention. I’m saying the people shun them until they go out of business.

I was a vendor at Reefstock and had a $10 section. Sold out of those too.

 

[Dburr1014]

I was a vendor at Reefstock and had a $10 section. Sold out of those too.

Did BSA buy them?
Sorry, joke. Couldn't let it go. Ha

 

[legionofdoon]

I bought an Acan from a LFS in Florida that looks exactly like one a very big named Florida based vendor. My cost $35 their price $143

 

[AKG]

I was a vendor at Reefstock and had a $10 section. Sold out of those too.

Yep I saw this and I certainly saw value, but I'm also not out to say it's wrong for people to buy cool corals to resell. That's your business model. But you would think a proposed high tier vendor like BSA knows better than to tarnish their reputation over a quick buck.

I don't know Saw, it just felt weird seeing someone touting as a ultra premium brand doing that. If you're gonna do it, drop the image and be humble and honest instead of fleecing people.

You could charge thousands or hundreds for your frags, and you do, but at least you have the decency as a vendor to back it up with a photo of the grow out or mother colony.

Doesn't it rub you the wrong way when someone is charging a premium for nothing besides marketing behind their brand? You tout the best corals in the universe, but you also don't charge insane prices. You could, but you don't. There's a point where if people want to charge that for their corals, you could probably all band together and do that, and I won't complain because businesses are businesses, but as far as anyone understands, you try your best to run your business and you feel like you are priced for the market.

It should upset you that you basically have a hobbyist collector show up, buy people out, and then make up names and charge 4 times what you do for the same product you offer. I understand that you made your money if they buy you out, but understand that time in the market beats timing the market. In other words, if nobody had sold anything to BSA they would have been there with a few 10 gallon tanks and their thumbs up their butt all weekend, which is how it should be because at $600/frag for a discosoma they should be able to bring their own coral just like everyone else.

A minimum inventory of default stock would be a nice idea to prevent this sort of market abuse at future events.

 

[AKG]

Not Coloration, but at least the strain and clade of photoreactive zoox, can be imparted on newly settled coral by introducing a coral with the selected traits nearby.

This was discussed heavily in this book.