I got some big problems - Need some insight -(Please)

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Back story (some of you may remember bits and pieces of this):
- been cooking rocks for 2 years in a brute I’ve added rocks and taken rocks out along the way
- 5 months ago on a whim, I put most of these rocks in my main displays second sump to “assist with additional bacteria growth in prep of a new look down tank I was getting ready to to bring online
- the day after I put the rocks (about 125 pounds) in my secondary sump, a super healthy and OG blue hippo randomly died over night. I noticed him heavy breathing before lights out but did not think of anything
- had some caution tossed at me here. So I. Took the rocks out and put them back in the brute with fresh water It had flow and heat the two years
- 3 months ago I got my 48x48x20 lookdown tank online. It’s going to be an all acro lookdown.
- I ordered 100 pounds of TBS rock and 50 pounds of tbs sand. The TBS rock went in the sump and the sand went in a second sump which is a remote sand bed
- it ran 3 weeks like this with no lights.
- 2 months ago I added 100% of all my cooked rock to the look down display. I let it run for 2 months
- I added lights (it has 12k GPH of closed loop flow, yes, very intense)
- I added 9 fish, all are doing great - except the poor file fish that got sucked up into one of the reflow pumps when I didn’t have the safety flow cage on
- I have sent up multiple tanks this way
- I added a frag, it looked fine so I added 3 trays of Acro frags.
- within 48 hours I lost 40% complete the other 60% looked like crap.
- I assumed I rushed the tank. No two tanks are the same. So, I ran an ICP
- I haven’t done but one 15% water change
- I thought it was odd as I have copious amounts of coralline growing everywhere. But this coralline and the algae has been preventing me from seeing in the tank. So I haven’t been looking for my clean up crew (I imagine they are dead, morning a minute)

- I get my ICP back - What the freak. Mind you I run monthly ICP on my big system. The rocks being in my system for 2 days never impacted my ICP for that tank.

Now I have some digitada and some green LPs-SPS stuff psy!?!?! Something something - the green stuff is doing well , the digi is starting to fade.

Arsenic
Copper
Tin

Coller is at near therapeutic levels. Arsenic? My fish are fine. Tin?!?!?!

So, what would you do?

- Right now I am planning on pulling all the non TBS rock out and putting it in a brute. Fresh water and let this run a few days. I will test for copper in a few days. If it tests for copper I’m guessing these rocks are now destined for a permanent QT system. I’m guessing they are smoked.

- I’m super worried my TBS rock is questionable?

Going to do about a 80% water change today. Leave the TBS rock and sand and run cuprisorb.

Thoughts?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I cleaned my glass and got into the tank. All my cleanup crew are alive. Crab and snails all good. System volume is 200G.

 

[Miami Reef]

The copper level is safe and too low for home tests to work. They will show false positives since they measure in ppm.

I’m a little confused about the rock situation. I don’t think they are the culprit of the arsenic or tin issue.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The copper level is safe and too low for home tests to work. They will show false positives since they measure in ppm.

I’m a little confused about the rock situation. I don’t think they are the culprit of the arsenic or tin issue.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I’m confused. If therapeutic levels for Copper to QT are 2.5 and I am at 2.38, what unit of measure is UGL compared to the states 2.5 (which I don’t know which unit that is referencing. I am not near my gear to look at my tester. (Thanks for looking)

 

[LiverockRocks]

Regarding the TBS rock - are you asking if they are now contaminated with arsenic, tin and copper after being exposed to the cooked rock for 2 months?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Regarding the TBS rock - are you asking if they are now contaminated with arsenic, tin and copper after being exposed to the cooked rock for 2 months?

Yeah, but I think the Copper may be a dead issue. 2.38 UGL maybe far far below what the therapeutic level. But yeah, I’m concerned if I hosed the new rock. I’m guessing I introduced something to the system that is subjecting everything to tin, arsenic and some copper.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m confused. If therapeutic levels for Copper to QT are 2.5 and I am at 2.38, what unit of measure is UGL compared to the states 2.5 (which I don’t know which unit that is referencing. I am not near my gear to look at my tester. (Thanks for looking)

Wrong units. You are at 2 ug/L not 2 mg/L copper

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Water changes and a metal binder are a fine plan, but I’m not seeing metal values that are a big issue.

 

[LiverockRocks]

Yeah, but I think the Copper may be a dead issue. 2.38 UGL maybe far far below what the therapeutic level. But yeah, I’m concerned if I hosed the new rock. I’m guessing I introduced something to the system that is subjecting everything to tin, arsenic and some copper.

well, I am not sure. I'd like to think lifeforms covering every surface of the TBS rock in combo with natural biofilm from being ocean grown that they would not absorb the tin/arsenic like a dry rock.
After removing the cooked rock, doing a few water changes and running cuprisorb, another ICP should shed some light on where the tank is.

Water changes and a metal binder are a fine plan, but I’m not seeing metal values that are a big issue.

This is reassuring and probably the reason your clean-up crew/fish are fine.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m confused. If therapeutic levels for Copper to QT are 2.5 and I am at 2.38

Quarantine requires 2.5 parts per million.
Your result is 2.38 parts per billion. Safe for reef tanks.

ug/L = ppb

Water changes and a metal binder are a fine plan, but I’m not seeing metal values that are a big issue.

You don’t think tin at 480 ug/L vs the “standard” 1 ug/L is a concern?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh, I did not see the tin under the copy/paste words. Yes, that’s a substantial concern.

Water change for sure. Look for culprit tubing that can release tin. But it’s not easy to identify.

Binders may or may not work on tin as there are many different chemical forms.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Also, I kid you not, I cannot believe how fast death came to a bunch of Acro’s. It was like a light switch. The digi that I left in there is barely surviving. I’ll post pics tonight when I do a near 100% water change. I need to go buy a donor brute in case I just curb everything.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Oh, I did not see the tin under the copy/paste words. Yes, that’s a substantial concern.

Water change for sure. Look for culprit tubing that can release tin. But it’s not easy to identify.

Binders may or may not work on tin as there are many different chemical forms.

Rut ruh. Could spa flex release tin? I just put 18” of it in my big system too. I plumbed the display in question with 75% spa flex

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Rut ruh. Could spa flex release tin? I just put 18” of it in my big system too. I plumbed the display in question with 75% spa flex

Yes, that could be it. It is a heat stabilizer for pvc and some other plastics.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

OK - I have 3 new plumbing tubing types on this tank. But the SpaFlex, while new, is used by everyone. However, I have 2 reactors using colored silicon tubing that I purchased off Amazon.

 

[baylisascaris97]

When I had Tim that high it was due to either the heater or the pump I used to mix my fresh water with. I left them in the brute can all the time. The way I found out was sending in an ICP of my brute can mixing station. The tin was unbelievably high. I tossed both of those items out, tossed out the old water, made new water and my tin corrected immediately through a couple big water changes. It was a jebeo pump. I don’t remember the brand for the heater.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I have had spa flex from the same manufacture on my mixing station for 2 years. Before I trash my entire system and cut my new frag tank that is on my main display, I am going to pull the red and black silicon tubing I got from Amazon (likely china) do a 100% water change, pull the old cooked rock and order a few more ICP kits. I’m going to do 50% water changes weekly until I pull the sample for the next ICP. I think maybe a 100% and 2 50%s then do an ICP. So, there is nothing that will absorb tin?

 

[Miami Reef]

So, there is nothing that will absorb tin?

Nothing as reliable as a water change, at least.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Nothing as reliable as a water change, at least.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

So I may have 5 sources.
1) I found about 4 pounds of ceramic media in the middle of a bunch of rocks. I am certain this was an off Amazon brand. This was purchase years ago for a fresh water system. I have no clue how it got in this sump. I was keeping my rocks situated in:
2) plastic storage bins for folding clothes. I had 5 of these in there. They also had “dyed handles” for decorstion
3) 4 foot section of “python syphon” from a reactor
4) 5 foot section of Amazon purchased silicon hose almost certainly made in China
5) about 30 feet of spaflex

I added a total of 16” of spa flex when I plumbed my new lowboy into my main mature system not connected to this one. I run monthly ICPs. My next one is due in 2 weeks. The spaflex has been running since day one on the problem tank. It’s only been running a week on my main system

I did a 200g water change, the system is about 215 as best I can figure out. I’ll do another water change (75%) Sunday.

When would be a good time to run another ICP in the bad system?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Are you doing water changes to remove what’s there?