Ich again, Time to Give Up ?

[Smiler1875]

I despair at this hobby, I really do. Got back into it around 11 months ago, small amout of corals, and fish then bought a couple of Pyramid butterflies, and ended up with Ich in tank. Lost all fish, & was going to give up, but encouraged by others , I went fallow for 3 full months. Started again, Built fish stock up, including another couple pyramid butterflies last addition (after 3 weeks QT in LFS) , as I've No QT.

All fine for last 2 months added nothing else, and bang ich back, lost both butterflies, coral beauty. I do 20 per cent water changes regulary, without fail, I check parameters every single week and record, all stable. Check tank daily. I am utterly clueless, where I have gone wrong. £3,500 in and looks like I am bailing out. My Clowns and Azure Damsels not affected, and small Scopas tang has spots but eating well etc.

Excuse long post but truly gutted.

 

[aws2266]

Do you trust that your LFS is really doing the QT? I don't QT yet, thinking about starting as I'll have a free 30g shortly. I've had one outbreak in my 55g and used polyplab reef medic and the outbreak went away within 15 days and that was two months ago. Sure I can't prove that polyplab actually corrected the outbreak as correlation is not causation. Having said that I have an ich outbreak in my 30g thats fish only. I'm gonna do the reef medic again and see what happens.

 

[ying yang]

,Aw that's a shame it hit you twice, I can only say so sorry and I started off with intention to qt every
Fish
With couple different medications but then decided not to and qt all corals ,snails,cuc in seperate qt tank for 45 days incase had fish parasites In water or on shells etc ,but decided not to qt and so far ok but still possibility all could go wrong at any moment I guess,but I suspect your problem lays in possibly what was your lfs qt procudure?

Did you ask lfs what their procudure in qt was,because if was just observational then your
Problem probably is there

I read @Jay Hemdal qt protocol says 30 days in copper I believe if memory serves me correct then few doses of prazicol

 

[ying yang]

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Here Jay's current qt protocol.
So if you going try again,you could try this qt procudure and then YOU DEFINATELY KNOW THAT CORRECT QT ON YOUR FISH BEEN DONE
But guess you going be annoyed as hell with 2 Catostrophic events happenning.

And question would be .
1.you lost all fish.
2.went fallow for 3 months .
3.built fish stock back up.
4.lfs qt for 3 weeks 2 pyramid butterfly fish.
5.got ich again.

So at stage 3 when built fish stock back up.did these fish get medicated/ qt in anyway or just put in tank with no qt ? As problem could be here also

 

[Smiler1875]

Do you trust that your LFS is really doing the QT? I don't QT yet, thinking about starting as I'll have a free 30g shortly. I've had one outbreak in my 55g and used polyplab reef medic and the outbreak went away within 15 days and that was two months ago. Sure I can't prove that polyplab actually corrected the outbreak as correlation is not causation. Having said that I have an ich outbreak in my 30g thats fish only. I'm gonna do the reef medic again and see what happens.

Hi, used Polyplab medic last time and this time as soon as I saw the spots. As for trusting LFS they kept them in a tank, I watched them feed etc, and were in my tank 2 months, not 100% sure they were cause but as happened last time with a a pair I'm guessing so and they showed signs first

 

[Smiler1875]

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Here Jay's current qt protocol.
So if you going try again,you could try this qt procudure and then YOU DEFINATELY KNOW THAT CORRECT QT ON YOUR FISH BEEN DONE
But guess you going be annoyed as hell with 2 Catostrophic events happenning.

And question would be .
1.you lost all fish.
2.went fallow for 3 months .
3.built fish stock back up.
4.lfs qt for 3 weeks 2 pyramid butterfly fish.
5.got ich again.

So at stage 3 when built fish stock back up.did these fish get medicated/ qt in anyway or just put in tank with no qt ? As problem could be here also

Hi

I built stock up from a couple of LFS over around 5 months, Pyramids were my final buy 2 months ago, I am very aware of having a QT but logistics is difficult, hence why I see fish at LFS and ask it to stay there a few weeks first. I havent lost all fish, got a couple of clowns showing no sign, valentini puffer no sign, Scopas tank with spots for a week, but eating etc, and 5 azure damsels showing no sign. Treating with Polyplab medic and temp at 28 degrees, But am 99% certain I'm giving up and takingthe loss on my 11 month investment

 

[ying yang]

And as for a qt tank it doesn't have to be big depending on size and amount of fish .
I have a 56 litre qt/ hospital tank running at all times just incase needed in a cupboard.
It's very simple with heater,internal filter,internal filter without sponge just for flow, plastic bio balls on bare bottom and some rock.
If I decided to medicate I would remove the rock .
If didnt medicate I would leave rock in for fish to feel more at home etc.
Doesn't need to be pvc fittings as can use plastic plants or bricks or plastic rocks or alot things

 

[aws2266]

Hi

I built stock up from a couple of LFS over around 5 months, Pyramids were my final buy 2 months ago, I am very aware of having a QT but logistics is difficult, hence why I see fish at LFS and ask it to stay there a few weeks first. I havent lost all fish, got a couple of clowns showing no sign, valentini puffer no sign, Scopas tank with spots for a week, but eating etc, and 5 azure damsels showing no sign. Treating with Polyplab medic and temp at 28 degrees, But am 99% certain I'm giving up and takingthe loss on my 11 month investment

Hate to see that. Maybe take it down and wait a few months. You might feel better after a break.

 

[ying yang]

Hi

I built stock up from a couple of LFS over around 5 months, Pyramids were my final buy 2 months ago, I am very aware of having a QT but logistics is difficult, hence why I see fish at LFS and ask it to stay there a few weeks first. I havent lost all fish, got a couple of clowns showing no sign, valentini puffer no sign, Scopas tank with spots for a week, but eating etc, and 5 azure damsels showing no sign. Treating with Polyplab medic and temp at 28 degrees, But am 99% certain I'm giving up and takingthe loss on my 11 month investment

Well 99% certain you giving up.
If that 1% wins and you continue you always got option of buying fish that are less prone to dieseses like if they got thicker slime coats .
That's if you don't want to set up a simple qt tank or dont want to qt your fish yourself which I understand takes time and effort or not got the space. I live in small 2 bedroom apartment that's why my hospital tank in cupboard ^_^
But you got lots options still available and one of them is just stick to fish you got left and feed well and keep up with tank maintenance
If you worried about buying new fish and them dying but I would wait and see what Jay says as he the resident fish diesese guy

 

[Tamberav]

I despair at this hobby, I really do. Got back into it around 11 months ago, small amout of corals, and fish then bought a couple of Pyramid butterflies, and ended up with Ich in tank. Lost all fish, & was going to give up, but encouraged by others , I went fallow for 3 full months. Started again, Built fish stock up, including another couple pyramid butterflies last addition (after 3 weeks QT in LFS) , as I've No QT.

All fine for last 2 months added nothing else, and bang ich back, lost both butterflies, coral beauty. I do 20 per cent water changes regulary, without fail, I check parameters every single week and record, all stable. Check tank daily. I am utterly clueless, where I have gone wrong. £3,500 in and looks like I am bailing out. My Clowns and Azure Damsels not affected, and small Scopas tang has spots but eating well etc.

Excuse long post but truly gutted.

Observational QT won’t be that helpful for ich. I doubt your LFS is doing a full treatment.

Have you considered using online full QT venders instead of your LFS? My friend does this as he is very busy and it has worked out well.

 

[Smiler1875]

Observational QT won’t be that helpful for ich. I doubt your LFS is doing a full treatment.

Have you considered using online full QT venders instead of your LFS? My friend does this as he is very busy and it has worked out well.

yes, but again the travel overnight from store to here wouldn't help, whereas LFS both within 10 miles (here in UK)

 

[ying yang]

yes, but again the travel overnight from store to here wouldn't help, whereas LFS both within 10 miles (here in UK)

Often fish/ corals go through the post .
Like all the fish that come from carribean/ indo Pacific they got to get here somehow which is in bags of water inside planes/ boats/ trucks I take it .I found this lfs that says they qt all livestock. What their idea of qt means I do not know

Marine fish

Marine fish at All Things Aquatic are fully quarantined. A great range of aquatic equipment. Gobys to clown fish, so check out your local saltwater fish shop. We design and work with specialist custom tank builders.

allthingsaquatic.co.uk

 

[Chrisv.]

Often fish/ corals go through the post .
Like all the fish that come from carribean/ indo Pacific they got to get here somehow which is in bags of water inside planes/ boats/ trucks I take it .I found this lfs that says they qt all livestock. What their idea of qt means I do not know

Marine fish

Marine fish at All Things Aquatic are fully quarantined. A great range of aquatic equipment. Gobys to clown fish, so check out your local saltwater fish shop. We design and work with specialist custom tank builders.

allthingsaquatic.co.uk

Looks like they do a min of 25 day qt and are located in Kent.

 

[ying yang]

Looks like they do a min of 25 day qt and are located in Kent.

Yeah I read that but I meant I don't know what or if they add medications or what medications etc etc etc

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi

I built stock up from a couple of LFS over around 5 months, Pyramids were my final buy 2 months ago, I am very aware of having a QT but logistics is difficult, hence why I see fish at LFS and ask it to stay there a few weeks first. I havent lost all fish, got a couple of clowns showing no sign, valentini puffer no sign, Scopas tank with spots for a week, but eating etc, and 5 azure damsels showing no sign. Treating with Polyplab medic and temp at 28 degrees, But am 99% certain I'm giving up and takingthe loss on my 11 month investment

Hi, sorry to hear of your issues. Just a couple of observations - raising the water temperature for marine ich is always an mistake. It is a carryover from treating freshwater ich. 28 c. is Cryptocaryon's "sweet spot" for strongest growth. Polyp Lab Medic is a very mild treatment, that doesn't always work, Combine that with warmer water, and ich is going to win.

Also, I'm just second-guessing your diagnosis - having ich go through a tank, but have some fish survive is highly unusual (except for eels, sharks and rays). When I hear of pyramid butterflies dying, but other fish surviving, I start to wonder if the issue was Neobenedenia flukes?

Jay

 

[Grumblez]

If you can't quarantine or buy from a source that does a good quarantine for you I would definitely look at a UV. It won't eradicate disease in your tank but will often times keep it controlled to a level that it slows potential spread between fish or keeps the levels low enough they can fight it off.