Ich on Royal Gramma?

jkelly6357

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Hi all,

about 8 days ago I noticed my royal gramma was covered in white spots, my initial thought was ich, I’ve tried multiple times to get him out of the tank with no luck so I’ve been focusing on ich management, for the past week his appetite has been normal up until today, he did not eat as much as usual, he’s been doing a lot of flashing, especially at night. But I’ve now noticed my female clownfish has a white haze over her skin and her eyes are cloudy as well, it doesn’t look or sound like ich, so I don’t even know where to begin with treatment, I’ve also noticed they’ve been hanging out closer to the surface of the tank and on the side where the powerhead is, am I dealing with ich, something else or multiple things at once? Thank you!

Parameters are:

Alk- 8.1dkh
Cal- 420
Mg- 1420
SG- 1.026
Ammonia- 0
Nitrate- 11.7 (Hanna)
Phosphates- 0
Temp- 78

7BC8AD1A-5D04-4094-AE23-DD306A680D85.jpeg 6636BEEE-2147-416A-A639-3399E56AB3B3.jpeg
 
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Hi all,

about 8 days ago I noticed my royal gramma was covered in white spots, my initial thought was ich, I’ve tried multiple times to get him out of the tank with no luck so I’ve been focusing on ich management, for the past week his appetite has been normal up until today, he did not eat as much as usual, he’s been doing a lot of flashing, especially at night. But I’ve now noticed my female clownfish has a white haze over her skin and her eyes are cloudy as well, it doesn’t look or sound like ich, so I don’t even know where to begin with treatment, I’ve also noticed they’ve been hanging out closer to the surface of the tank and on the side where the powerhead is, am I dealing with ich, something else or multiple things at once? Thank you!

Parameters are:

Alk- 8.1dkh
Cal- 420
Mg- 1420
SG- 1.026
Ammonia- 0
Nitrate- 11.7 (Hanna)
Phosphates- 0
Temp- 78

7BC8AD1A-5D04-4094-AE23-DD306A680D85.jpeg 6636BEEE-2147-416A-A639-3399E56AB3B3.jpeg
There is a couple of what " may be" but hard to confirm with the mixed lighting and bounce of light
Please retake under white lighting making image clearer. Gramma may be a victim of clown aggression based on fins
 

Jay Hemdal

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It could be ich - that can come and go when it first starts up. I agree with vetteguy, something has been tagging that gramma. Better pictures under white light
Might help us see more clearly what is going on.
Jay
 
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jkelly6357

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There is a couple of what " may be" but hard to confirm with the mixed lighting and bounce of light
Please retake under white lighting making image clearer. Gramma may be a victim of clown aggression based on fins
It could be ich - that can come and go when it first starts up. I agree with vetteguy, something has been tagging that gramma. Better pictures under white light
Might help us see more clearly what is going on.
Jay
I also suspected aggression, I also have a flame hawk but I’ve never witnessed any aggression or fighting, I don’t doubt its happening though! These are the best pics I could get of the clownfish, she hates the flash on the camera but you can see the cloudiness in her eyes
 

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Aluco

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I personally don't see ich from the pictures. There could possibly be velvet or brooks as imo these can be Harder to photograph but as far as I know fish don't last long if those diseases were present.

Just going off of what is visible to me in the pictures tho, that royal gramma looks pretty beat up. If it were me I'd separate him to a calmer tank where he can heal up and get some rest. I recently had to move an anthias to another tank as he was victim to aggression. Looked like he wasn't gonna survive another night, but since I moved him his fins are growing out and he's doing quite well.
 
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jkelly6357

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I personally don't see ich from the pictures. There could possibly be velvet or brooks as imo these can be Harder to photograph but as far as I know fish don't last long if those diseases were present.

Just going off of what is visible to me in the pictures tho, that royal gramma looks pretty beat up. If it were me I'd separate him to a calmer tank where he can heal up and get some rest. I recently had to move an anthias to another tank as he was victim to aggression. Looked like he wasn't gonna survive another night, but since I moved him his fins are growing out and he's doing quite well.
Could the flashing that he does against the sand be a stress response from being bullied?
 

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Could the flashing that he does against the sand be a stress response from being bullied?

I still don't see clear signs of ich. Flashing is a response to some skin irritation. With royal gramma, that is usually skin flukes. It could also be in response to the skin damage though - what happens is if a marine fish feels anything on its skin, it scratches to dislodge it in case its a parasite. So - it could be parasites (flukes) it could be detritus in the tank, or it could be the skin damage making the gramma flash.

One option would be to treat the tank 2x, 8 days apart with Prazipro to control flukes. It is reef safe as long as you have good aeration.

Jay
 
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jkelly6357

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I still don't see clear signs of ich. Flashing is a response to some skin irritation. With royal gramma, that is usually skin flukes. It could also be in response to the skin damage though - what happens is if a marine fish feels anything on its skin, it scratches to dislodge it in case its a parasite. So - it could be parasites (flukes) it could be detritus in the tank, or it could be the skin damage making the gramma flash.

One option would be to treat the tank 2x, 8 days apart with Prazipro to control flukes. It is reef safe as long as you have good aeration.

Jay
Ok I’ll give that a try, could flukes also be what is on the clownfish? Her skin is a bit hazy and her eyes are cloudy and it looks like something white is on or in her eye
 
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Ok I’ll give that a try, could flukes also be what is on the clownfish? Her skin is a bit hazy and her eyes are cloudy and it looks like something white is on or in her eye
I still don't see clear signs of ich. Flashing is a response to some skin irritation. With royal gramma, that is usually skin flukes. It could also be in response to the skin damage though - what happens is if a marine fish feels anything on its skin, it scratches to dislodge it in case its a parasite. So - it could be parasites (flukes) it could be detritus in the tank, or it could be the skin damage making the gramma flash.

One option would be to treat the tank 2x, 8 days apart with Prazipro to control flukes. It is reef safe as long as you have good aeration.

Jay
Also just noticed the other clownfish has cloudy eyes as well
 

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Also just noticed the other clownfish has cloudy eyes as well

One species of fluke (Neobenedenia) can cause externally cloudy eyes. There is also a rare digenean fluke that causes internally cloudy eyes. Ich can cause cloudy eyes as the infection continues.

Another, better option to just Prazipro would be to move all of the fish (with the gramma in isolation) into a fish-only system and treat with hyposalinity. That will handle flukes and marine ich. However, that is pretty complicated to do and would require multiple tanks. Is that something you can consider?

Jay
 
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jkelly6357

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One species of fluke (Neobenedenia) can cause externally cloudy eyes. There is also a rare digenean fluke that causes internally cloudy eyes. Ich can cause cloudy eyes as the infection continues.

Another, better option to just Prazipro would be to move all of the fish (with the gramma in isolation) into a fish-only system and treat with hyposalinity. That will handle flukes and marine ich. However, that is pretty complicated to do and would require multiple tanks. Is that something you can consider?

Jay
I can give it shot, but Im sure I’m gonna have a heck of a time catching them all, I also just noticed the Gramma’s eyes are extremely cloudy as well, worse then the two clownfish
 
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I can give it shot, but Im sure I’m gonna have a heck of a time catching them all, I also just noticed the Gramma’s eyes are extremely cloudy as well, worse then the two clownfish

With all fish having cloudy eyes, I can't really come to any other conclusion than Neobenedenia flukes. Prazipro ASAP will at least buy you some time.

Jay
 
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jkelly6357

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With all fish having cloudy eyes, I can't really come to any other conclusion than Neobenedenia flukes. Prazipro ASAP will at least buy you some time.

Jay
Ok, I just bought some today, I know Prazipro can deplete oxygen. Will running the skimmer with collection cup off and adding an airstone suffice for oxygen? The tank is a 20 gallon AIO, I figured net water volume is around 16 gallons after sand and rocks. The dose is 5ml per 20 gallons, should I half that dose?
 

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Ok, I just bought some today, I know Prazipro can deplete oxygen. Will running the skimmer with collection cup off and adding an airstone suffice for oxygen? The tank is a 20 gallon AIO, I figured net water volume is around 16 gallons after sand and rocks. The dose is 5ml per 20 gallons, should I half that dose?

Yes - the skimmer with the cup off is exactly what you should do. You should treat for a full dose for the net volume of the tank, then repeat the dose in 8 or 9 days. Some people change 25% of the water prior to the second dose.

Jay
 
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jkelly6357

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Yes - the skimmer with the cup off is exactly what you should do. You should treat for a full dose for the net volume of the tank, then repeat the dose in 8 or 9 days. Some people change 25% of the water prior to the second dose.

Jay
Just a quick update,

I lost the gramma 2 days ago, and woke up this morning to find my male clownfish dead, yesterday he developed these dark splotches all over his body and it looked like he struggling to swim. The female clownfish still has white haze all over her and her eyes are extremely cloudy. I feel like they’re all having different symptoms of something so I have no idea what I’m dealing with
 

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