Ich questions

[Brad Coughlan]

(I have made a few threads about this royal gramma before and am still questioning, hence the new one)
I added a royal gramma about 11 days ago, it had a few little white spots. Looked similar to ich but also looked like sand from its natural behaviour of dashing in and out rocks and sand, I have very small grain sand so I also thought it could be small pieces of sand sticking to it. The other 3 fish in the tank (clowns and firefish) are showing no signs of ich, even 11 days later. I do understand the ich lifecycle and how the spots change, and today the royal gramma has increased amounts of white spots, and on the fins at the back. But earlier I witnessed one drop off the fish, which also made me think that it is sand. I genuinely don't know whether it is white spot or sand because the other fish are showing zero signs of it, and the gramma's spots were mostly the same for 11 days.

Basically, I have no idea about the diagnostics side of this, and I keep posting pictures and I still can't really seem to get an answer (due to my poor quality pictures)
If it is ich, I only have 1 tank which is the display tank so that kind of wipes out the option of QT for me
I also have corals and inverts in the display tank, so copper won't be an option. If anyone with more knowledge with ich could help me diagnose this and consider the fact that the other fish are showing no signs of ich, it will help very much!
-thanks

 

[Pickle_soup]

Pics would really help

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Pics would really help

Fish looks stressed bcs I came in the middle of the night, these are the biggest spots on it

 

[vetteguy53081]

(I have made a few threads about this royal gramma before and am still questioning, hence the new one)
I added a royal gramma about 11 days ago, it had a few little white spots. Looked similar to ich but also looked like sand from its natural behaviour of dashing in and out rocks and sand, I have very small grain sand so I also thought it could be small pieces of sand sticking to it. The other 3 fish in the tank (clowns and firefish) are showing no signs of ich, even 11 days later. I do understand the ich lifecycle and how the spots change, and today the royal gramma has increased amounts of white spots, and on the fins at the back. But earlier I witnessed one drop off the fish, which also made me think that it is sand. I genuinely don't know whether it is white spot or sand because the other fish are showing zero signs of it, and the gramma's spots were mostly the same for 11 days.

Basically, I have no idea about the diagnostics side of this, and I keep posting pictures and I still can't really seem to get an answer (due to my poor quality pictures)
If it is ich, I only have 1 tank which is the display tank so that kind of wipes out the option of QT for me
I also have corals and inverts in the display tank, so copper won't be an option. If anyone with more knowledge with ich could help me diagnose this and consider the fact that the other fish are showing no signs of ich, it will help very much!
-thanks

Sand is very common to stick to them. Ich doesnt fall off in a flash and likely is however best to be concerned and confirm. A video of at least 20 secs and/or still pics under white light intensity helpful with assessment

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Pics would really help

These are also the ones on the fins

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Sand is very common to stick to them. Ich doesnt fall off in a flash and likely is however best to be concerned and confirm. A video of at least 20 secs and/or still pics under white light intensity helpful with assessment

---

apologies for the terrible quality and shakiness, I took this video really quick earlier, best video I have rn since the light has been off for 2 hours and the fish is hiding. Around the 16second mark you can see the spots by the end of the fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

---

apologies for the terrible quality and shakiness, I took this video really quick earlier, best video I have rn since the light has been off for 2 hours and the fish is hiding. Around the 16second mark you can see the spots by the end of the fish

Im not convinced on sand based on size and location of dots and believe its ich. You can treat in a separate tank using General cure which is safe for them or Coppersafe or copperPower at 2.0-2.25 as they tolerate it well. My other concern will be the other fish in tank which have become exposed to parasite.
Add aeration with air stone during treatment which will be 30 Full days

 

[Pickle_soup]

Are you seeing some other signs? Flashing, heavy breathing, not eating? It's really hard to tell when it's not a clear-cut case of ich. At 16, as you said, I am not a fan of those spots by his tail fin.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

thanks

Im not convinced on sand based on size and location of dots and believe its ich. You can treat in a separate tank using General cure which is safe for them or Coppersafe or copperPower at 2.0-2.25 as they tolerate it well. My other concern will be the other fish in tank which have become exposed to parasite.
Add aeration with air stone during treatment which will be 30 Full days

thanks for the reply, I do not have another tank unfortunately so I cannot qt, so I am kind of panicking about it because I am not currently in the position to get a qt tank. I know the route of ich management is taken by some but I am not educated on the effectiveness of it. However does the fact that no other fish are showing signs of ich in 11 days still mean the gramma is infected?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Are you seeing some other signs? Flashing, heavy breathing, not eating? It's really hard to tell when it's not a clear-cut case of ich. At 16, as you said, I am not a fan of those spots by his tail fin.

The fish is perfectly fine, eating well, even showing signs of territorial aggression towards the clowns sometimes. Whenever the return pump goes off for feeding it joins the other fish and swims up for food. No potential signs of ich besides the spots themself, which really makes me question if it is sand of ich.

 

[Pickle_soup]

thanks

thanks for the reply, I do not have another tank unfortunately so I cannot qt, so I am kind of panicking about it because I am not currently in the position to get a qt tank. I know the route of ich management is taken by some but I am not educated on the effectiveness of it. However does the fact that no other fish are showing signs of ich in 11 days still mean the gramma is infected?

Some fish won't show any signs. That doesn't mean they are not carrying it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

thanks

thanks for the reply, I do not have another tank unfortunately so I cannot qt, so I am kind of panicking about it because I am not currently in the position to get a qt tank. I know the route of ich management is taken by some but I am not educated on the effectiveness of it. However does the fact that no other fish are showing signs of ich in 11 days still mean the gramma is infected?

I understand but is the recourse to nip this in the bud. You can use a rubbermaid tub, or as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I understand but is the recourse to nip this in the bud. You can use a rubbermaid tub, or as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

Yeah, I ofc want to do the most effective option. I plan on going to my LFS tomorrow for more info also. Regarding qt, what are the cycling requirments?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah, I ofc want to do the most effective option. I plan on going to my LFS tomorrow for more info also. Regarding qt, what are the cycling requirments?

You can place seeded sponge or similar - Not rock and run a hang on filter Removing carbon from filter element to provide water movement and remove micron sediment. Of course monitor water quality during treatment

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Some fish won't show any signs. That doesn't mean they are not carrying it.

I've read about how ich signs are heavily dependent on the amount of stress a fish have. I don't know about the success rate of ich management, but in theory would a good diet, low stress and high water quality be an effective method without qt

 

[Brad Coughlan]

You

can placed seeded sponge or similar - Not rock and run a hang on filter Removing carbon from filter element to provide water movement and remove micron sediment. Of course monitor water quality during treatment

Ok,
Just for some context, I did ask my LFS about this, and they only qt or medicate their tangs or larger fish it seems, the gramma was in a tank with inverts so no medication was used, at least when I bought it. As much as I want to go down the qt route, as a 16 year old it seems like it's gonna be difficult explaining this to my parents which are fairly involved with the progress of the tank. Also gonna be a pain to catch fish if I take this route. Not sure if other hobbyists take ich as a massive deal, but in a nano tank with 4 fish (only 9 months in the hobby) it seems like a pretty big deal rn Lol

 

[Pickle_soup]

You don't have to cycle

I've read about how ich signs are heavily dependent on the amount of stress a fish have. I don't know about the success rate of ich management, but in theory would a good diet, low stress and high water quality be an effective method without qt

I don't buy into this theory, but that's just me. If the ich is in the tank, it can just go nuts when fish become more stress for whatever reason. Additionally, ich attaches itself to the gills, and that can create a number of problems for your fish. I would go with qt and fallow the DT for 60-76 days

 

[Pickle_soup]

Ok,
Just for some context, I did ask my LFS about this, and they only qt or medicate their tangs or larger fish it seems, the gramma was in a tank with inverts so no medication was used, at least when I bought it. As much as I want to go down the qt route, as a 16 year old it seems like it's gonna be difficult explaining this to my parents which are fairly involved with the progress of the tank. Also gonna be a pain to catch fish if I take this route. Not sure if other hobbyists take ich as a massive deal, but in a nano tank with 4 fish (only 9 months in the hobby) it seems like a pretty big deal rn Lol

It is a pretty big deal. I lost countless fish to ich until I properly started qt all the fish and inverts that came into my tank. If you don't get rid of it, it will live there for eternity. Most LFS have ich in their tanks. Employees often cross contaminate their tanks with nets.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

It is a pretty big deal. I lost countless fish to ich until I properly started qt all the fish and inverts that came into my tank. If you don't get rid of it, it will live there for eternity. Most LFS have ich in their tanks. Employees often cross contaminate their tanks with nets.

yeah, seems pretty serious. lesson learned I supose, will qt new fish from now on

 

[ReeferTang44]

If you cannot catch him in the past, I’ve had great success using polyp lab reef Medic