Ich questions

[Pickle_soup]

yeah, seems pretty serious. lesson learned I supose, will qt new fish from now on

Watch the series of these quarantine videos. It seems their method will work for you. Or you can go with hyposalinity.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

If you cannot catch him in the past, I’ve had great success using polyp lab reef Medic

I have heard about this product before and how it is "mostly reef safe"
I will look into purchasing some, every little helps I guess

 

[ReeferTang44]

I have heard about this product before and how it is "mostly reef safe"
I will look into purchasing some, every little helps I guess

For me, it was 100% reef safe, had no coral problems I don’t think anyone has

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Watch the series of these quarantine videos. It seems their method will work for you. Or you can go with hyposalinity.

Yeah alright,
thanks for the suggestion, gonna watch this

 

[Brad Coughlan]

For me, it was 100% reef safe, had no coral problems I don’t think anyone has

How was the effectiveness against ich?

 

[ReeferTang44]

How was the effectiveness against ich?

It took a while but it worked really well about 12 days I didn’t see it but I dosed for 20

 

[Pickle_soup]

Yeah alright,
thanks for the suggestion, gonna watch this

There are other videos in this series. If I was to do this, it would be 30 days of copper in qt, and DT fallow for 76 days. I prefer my qt with sand if the fish will stay there for so long so that I don't have to worry about ammonia every day. Mind you, those videos are for a 14-day period, and I am not really a fan of it. But they will give you a good overview of what to expect from a qt process.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

It took a while but it worked really well about 12 days I didn’t see it but I dosed for 20

Is ich still present in your tank at all?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok,
Just for some context, I did ask my LFS about this, and they only qt or medicate their tangs or larger fish it seems, the gramma was in a tank with inverts so no medication was used, at least when I bought it. As much as I want to go down the qt route, as a 16 year old it seems like it's gonna be difficult explaining this to my parents which are fairly involved with the progress of the tank. Also gonna be a pain to catch fish if I take this route. Not sure if other hobbyists take ich as a massive deal, but in a nano tank with 4 fish (only 9 months in the hobby) it seems like a pretty big deal rn Lol

Ich can kill. These circumstances happen and the LFS cant medicate for every potential issue. As I often suggest- Quarantine all fish and assume they have something upon purchase. If your parents have questions about what is needed, feel free to have them join conversation with you to explain the situation. Not a matter if a big deal, but an example is when you get ill - it is taken serious to remedy the issue. Same applies. Gramma in with inverts should give you a clue that there was no way tank was medicated - unfrtunately

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Ich can kill. These circumstances happen and the LFS cant medicate for every potential issue. As I often suggest- Quarantine all fish and assume they have something upon purchase. If your parents have questions about what is needed, feel free to have them join conversation with you to explain the situation. Not a matter if a big deal, but an example is when you get ill - it is taken serious to remedy the issue. Same applies. Gramma in with inverts should give you a clue that there was no way tank was medicated - unfrtunately

Yeah very true.
Alright, I'm also going to the lfs tomorrow, so I will find further info about this.
Once again thanks for the info

 

[Brad Coughlan]

There are other videos in this series. If I was to do this, it would be 30 days of copper in qt, and DT fallow for 76 days. I prefer my qt with sand if the fish will stay there for so long so that I don't have to worry about ammonia every day. Mind you, those videos are for a 14-day period, and I am not really a fan of it. But they will give you a good overview of what to expect from a qt process.

Would the presence of a peppermint shrimp and hermits / other cleanup crew in the display tank affect running the dt fallow?

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Ich can kill. These circumstances happen and the LFS cant medicate for every potential issue. As I often suggest- Quarantine all fish and assume they have something upon purchase. If your parents have questions about what is needed, feel free to have them join conversation with you to explain the situation. Not a matter if a big deal, but an example is when you get ill - it is taken serious to remedy the issue. Same applies. Gramma in with inverts should give you a clue that there was no way tank was medicated - unfrtunately

Also worth mentioning that a lot of the info that my LFS gives me is a lot different to what I get online and reef2reef, I understand that there are varying opinions and methods, but I will return to this thread if any of the info they give contradicts this

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also worth mentioning that a lot of the info that my LFS gives me is a lot different to what I get online and reef2reef, I understand that there are varying opinions and methods, but I will return to this thread if any of the info they give contradicts this

Thats your call. They already misinformed you on Quarantining the fish as its impossible with a tank of inverts

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Ich can kill. These circumstances happen and the LFS cant medicate for every potential issue. As I often suggest- Quarantine all fish and assume they have something upon purchase. If your parents have questions about what is needed, feel free to have them join conversation with you to explain the situation. Not a matter if a big deal, but an example is when you get ill - it is taken serious to remedy the issue. Same applies. Gramma in with inverts should give you a clue that there was no way tank was medicated - unfrtunately

Ok so update,
As I said I am 11 days in with keeping the gramma, the spots I saw appeared 24 hourd ago, ans now they are completely gone... other fish still fine. Still going to lfs, any thoughts? Tempted to say is sand, really hope it is ofc

 

[Pickle_soup]

Would the presence of a peppermint shrimp and hermits / other cleanup crew in the display tank affect running the dt fallow?

Would the presence of a peppermint shrimp and hermits / other cleanup crew in the display tank affect running the dt fallow?

No, just feed them thou

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You don't have to cycle

I don't buy into this theory, but that's just me. If the ich is in the tank, it can just go nuts when fish become more stress for whatever reason. Additionally, ich attaches itself to the gills, and that can create a number of problems for your fish. I would go with qt and fallow the DT for 60-76 days

Yes - especially since the ich trophonts themselves can be a stressor, sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok so update,
As I said I am 11 days in with keeping the gramma, the spots I saw appeared 24 hourd ago, ans now they are completely gone... other fish still fine. Still going to lfs, any thoughts? Tempted to say is sand, really hope it is ofc

This is a typical progression of marine ich, Cryptocaryon. You're aware by now, of the basic life cycle, where the ich trophont drops off the fish, turns into a tomont and then, after a few days, releases theronts that re-infect the fish. Early one in an infection, the trophonts are all about the same age, so they drop off at the same time. This makes it seem like the fish is suddenly healed. Now, if it is sand, or some other non-ich issue, the spots are gone and all is good. However, if it is ich, new spots will show up. Eventually, the ich parasites get out of sync with on another, and the fish will have spots all the time, and in increasing numbers.

To add to some other thoughts, here is my write up for "ich management" :

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides (this include Polyp Lab Medic) .

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have heard about this product before and how it is "mostly reef safe"
I will look into purchasing some, every little helps I guess

Ive used Polyp medic more than once. Its peroxide salts and rarely works with ich but better with velvet and simply stopped as it was not effective and at $40 , you can darn near buy a quarantine tank for same money. Jay confirmed and made it clear as I also stated the effective method to fixing this. Too many short cuts suggested and you need to fix this now. Your lights were off and when you saw fish, it looked clear - For now. By Mid day you will notice spots all over it once again

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Ive used Polyp medic more than once. Its peroxide salts and rarely works with ich but better with velvet and simply stopped as it was not effective and at $40 , you can darn near buy a quarantine tank for same money. Jay confirmed and made it clear as I also stated the effective method to fixing this. Too many short cuts suggested and you need to fix this now. Your lights were off and when you saw fish, it looked clear - For now. By Mid day you will notice spots all over it once again

Ok thanks,
I will monitor the fish also and see if spots re appear

 

[Brad Coughlan]

This is a typical progression of marine ich, Cryptocaryon. You're aware by now, of the basic life cycle, where the ich trophont drops off the fish, turns into a tomont and then, after a few days, releases theronts that re-infect the fish. Early one in an infection, the trophonts are all about the same age, so they drop off at the same time. This makes it seem like the fish is suddenly healed. Now, if it is sand, or some other non-ich issue, the spots are gone and all is good. However, if it is ich, new spots will show up. Eventually, the ich parasites get out of sync with on another, and the fish will have spots all the time, and in increasing numbers.

To add to some other thoughts, here is my write up for "ich management" :

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides (this include Polyp Lab Medic) .

Jay

Great info, thanks